Ferguson

[Horizon]

How?

I dunno.

I'd probably shoot a man ****ing me up.

 

[Sovereign]

Glad I made that preface then.

Thanks for the link, but I probably won't donate. ~6000 black men are killed in America annually- giving special attention to just one death on account of how publicized it is seems pretty knee-jerky.

So let's donate to no one instead?

Makes sense.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I dunno.

I'd probably shoot a man ****ing me up.

And unless you could show that it was in self-defense - which this was not - you would be charged with murder.

 

[Horizon]

And unless you could show that it was in self-defense - which this was not - you would be charged with murder.

True.

But my question is..

What will the great and mighty debate team of SWRP do to turn these events injustice that they all so fiercely comment about!?

 

[Sovereign]

True.

But my question is..

What will the great and mighty debate team of SWRP do to turn these events injustice that they all so fiercely comment about!?

Please stop trying to sound clever. You're not very good at it.

 

[Horizon]

Please stop trying to sound clever. You're not very good at it.

You take yourself too seriously, Sin.

All too bothered with matters of the world as always, bby.

 

[Blaxican]

How?

You don't think Brown assaulting the police officer and trying to take his gun (the story as presented by the article in question) has any effect on the current spin of him running for his life or trying to surrender and getting gunned down in cold blood?

And yah, I'm aware that that story (including the injury) are presented from a shady site and not likely to be true. But, my interpretation of your question was that it's under the pretenses of the article being credible.

So let's donate to no one instead?

Makes sense.

Implying there aren't foundations an individual can donate to that are focused specifically on aiding the victims of homicide and other crimes.

Go home you're drunk.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

You don't think Brown assaulting the police officer and trying to take his gun (the story as presented by the article in question) has any effect on the current spin of him running for his life or trying to surrender and getting gunned down in cold blood?

And yah, I'm aware that that story (including the injury) are presented from a shady site and not likely to be true. But, my interpretation of your question was that it's under the pretenses of the article being credible.

No, I don't think any of that is relevant to the ultimate act of shooting him. Assuming any of that is even true, he was still running away. He was still trying to surrender. Police officers are not supposed to shoot people unless absolutely necessary, and a guy running away and trying to surrender most certainly does not make that necessary.

 

[Blaxican]

So, under the context of the article being credible, Brown caved in the cop's face and tried to take his gun, then ran away and was gunned down while he was fleeing/surrendering? That doesn't seem like a logically consistent scenario.

Aside from the hypothetical above, do we have confirmation that he was fleeing/surrendering when he was shot? I've been trying to look it up but I'm not finding anything more substantial than eye-witness testimonies. The autopsy seems to rule out that he was fleeing since all the bullets hit him from the front or straight down through the crown of his head.

The article I'm reading on NYT also states that the guy who performed the autopsy is of the belief that the bullet through the top of the head was most likely the last one to hit him. That casts a lot of doubt on the notion of it being an execution type deal where he was in the process of surrendering.

edit- What do you think happened?

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'm a bit confused here myself. When is self defense, self defense, if physical assault/battery doesn't count?

Course im of the opinion that waiting and seeing is the best course course action and to not let a juicy sounding story muddy waters. So my investment in speculative fanfiction of this persons death is pretty slim.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

It's self-defense when killing the assailant is the only reasonable option in the situation. It was not the only reasonable option here, especially when - according to most witness accounts - Michael Brown was running away.

 

[Kaeb]

If cops absolutely have to shoot someone, then they should be trained to shoot to wound, if they don't think they have a clear enough shot or the situation is too strenuous, then they should not shoot at all.

Whether it was in self defense or not, by holding a gun, he is the one with power and he is therefore the one responsible for not abusing that power or mishandling it, because he is the one that could end up killing someone or even himself.

It seems to me that racial issues aside, the gun is the problem and the use of that gun is the problem.

 

[Rune]

If cops absolutely have to shoot someone, then they should be trained to shoot to wound, if they don't think they have a clear enough shot or the situation is too strenuous, then they should not shoot at all.

Whether it was in self defense or not, by holding a gun, he is the one with power and he is therefore the one responsible for not abusing that power or mishandling it, because he is the one that could end up killing someone or even himself.

It seems to me that racial issues aside, the gun is the problem and the use of that gun is the problem.

Mother F'ing THIS.

No one who is already running for fear of being shot is going to turn around and suddenly go on the attack. That is just common sense. It wasn't self defense.

As Kaeb said, the officer in this situation held all of the power. He controlled that situation and what the outcome was. He was a veteran of that police force. He had been a cop for six years I believe. Six years. He's no rookie, fresh on the ground. He should have been able to handle that situation in a manner where everyone came out alive. Injured maybe, but alive.

What it all comes down to is this:

We don’t execute people in the United States for armed robbery.

And we don’t let the police summarily execute ANYONE for ANYTHING.

 

[Kaeb]

Your justice system is pretty ****ed too though.

Again, racial factors aside for a moment (although they're huge ****ing factors), your prison system and your justice system is one of the most ****ed up systems on the planet right now. Since it's conception it's never really been about what it should be about, which is rehabilitation and the betterment of society, it became about vengeance, and a seriously warped vengeance controlled by extremely powerful, largely white, men.

Land of the free, my ****ing ass.

This incident is just one in a long line of publicized events that should hopefully expose the incredibly nuanced problems that are systemic within your nation, but like we've said in this thread already, those of us in the know with these events, aren't seeing much potential for a happy ending.

 

[Rune]

I don't disagree on a single point, Kaeb. It is a huge problem, one of many in our justice system, in this country.

 

[Kaeb]

**** me.

 

[TWD26]

It's self-defense when killing the assailant is the only reasonable option in the situation. It was not the only reasonable option here, especially when - according to most witness accounts - Michael Brown was running away.

Yes though eye witness accounts should be taken with a grain of salt most of the time. I just can't wrap my head around what happened. They say he ran away, but all of the shot's were frontal (beside the top of the head), so I doubt he was running backwards while still facing the cop. I don't know, I'm going to reserve my judgment on whether or not it was a murder or self defense when more concrete evidence (if there are any) before making my decision.

 

[Rune]

**** me.

How 'bout you buy a girl a drink first. :charmed:

 

[Kaeb]

**** no.

 

[Rune]

**** no.