Ferguson

[Blaxican]

There's another eye-witness testimony that states that Brown confronted the Officer. I find that a little hard to believe, but then again I don't really care about any of the eye-witness testimonies. They are by their nature highly unreliable.


The death of Mr. Brown is shitty, but I'm more concerned about the rioting for now. Unlike the shooting, there's enough evidence of what's going on for me to be concerned. Brandon's pretty much on the mark regarding how disturbing the militarization of the Police is. Calling in the National Guard is one thing, letting police ride around in APC's with military-grade hardware is another.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

There's another eye-witness testimony that states that Brown confronted the Officer. I find that a little hard to believe, but then again I don't really care about any of the eye-witness testimonies. They are by their nature highly unreliable.

I have a hard time believing that as well. But even if it is true, it doesn't excuse the shooting, because the shooting did not happen in a moment of struggle.

 

[Kaeb]

Any notion of supporting a single state place action in this scenario is complete and utter lunacy, and if you really do think that, then please take both your hands, clench them into fists and then shove them both up your own rectums.

This most recent incident is one in a long line of harrowing encounters which reinforces a systematic problem with the culture of police work in your country, an emphasis on security has lost the purpose of that security, which should be that of protection.

But no, your all now under constant surveillance with militarised police forces firing tear gas at children because those children and their families are sick of the police murdering their youth because of the colour of their skin.

Any attempt to defend the police in this scenario means you are basically a Nazi.

So yeah, go double fist yourself you useless ****ing Nazi's.

 

[TWD26]

Well I'm a Nazi then (Not really, but to prove Kaeb's point)

 

[Kaeb]

Rage is an appropriate response to this scenario, I mean it's just a bit of ****ing looting?

Shit got off lucky compared to shit I've seen in Ireland and the UK, and one disenfranchised and incredibly small group of oppressed people taking shit from a store that perpetuates a society based on consumerism and the power of that consumerism does not ****ing surprise me.

But taking those small incidents and applying them to the entire scenario as an excuse for Police Officer's to play war is ****ing stupid, and if you really think that, then can you account for them firing on peaceful protestors with rubber bullets? Firing tear gas at children and assaulting and arresting the press?

Get the **** outta here with your bullshit.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Tone it down, please. We've been having a good discussion here so far.

Here's some info. Preliminary reports from the autopsy suggest that Michael Brown was trying to surrender when he was shot. He was shot at least six times. The shot that killed him went through his brain. Brown was 6 foot 4, which suggests - and I could be wrong - that he was shot on the ground. That could potentially back up a witness report that claimed Brown was shot execution style, but that's speculation on my part.

Additionally, Governor Nixon has called off the curfew in Ferguson.

 

[TWD26]

Rage is an appropriate response to this scenario, I mean it's just a bit of ****ing looting?

Shit got off lucky compared to shit I've seen in Ireland and the UK, and one disenfranchised and incredibly small group of oppressed people taking shit from a store that perpetuates a society based on consumerism and the power of that consumerism does not ****ing surprise me.

But taking those small incidents and applying them to the entire scenario as an excuse for Police Officer's to play war is ****ing stupid, and if you really think that, then can you account for them firing on peaceful protestors with rubber bullets? Firing tear gas at children and assaulting and arresting the press?

Get the **** outta here with your bullshit.

You loose all credentials when you fill your post with vulgur and crude language. I support the police's attempt at stopping the rioting right now (I know the circumstances that lead to this position and I DON'T AGREE with the shooting, but burning your city down as some form of revenge is beyond idiotic. I do hope you realize that this isn't the local police with the APC's but the State Police. I do agree that the arresting of the press was a bad taste, I pretty much agree with all of your cases except for the looting. Looting in no case is right.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Looting in no case is right.

Looting doesn't have to be condoned, but you should understand what looting often is as well. Check out this link:

http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2014/08/things-stop-distracted-black-person-gets-murdered-police/

I'm going to snag a Facebook post from my cousin that summarizes the analysis:

While it may or may not be apparent, her analysis is rooted in a more academic understanding of looting. Looting = disordered consumption. As an act of consumption that stands in opposition to consumption legitimated by the state it must be understood as an act of power in resistance to consumer cultural hegemony. To most people, what I just wrote sounds like a fancy way of condoning looting despite the fact that it is a more objective way of understanding looting as a phenomena. She was attempting (and I think succeeded) in making that discussion more accessible.

She isn't excusing looting, she is trying to show that, in situations like this, focusing on looting as unethical behavior is an act of privileging property over life. It is an act of power to focus on the ethics of looting rather than the ethics of taking a life to protect property.

Looting doesn't have to be condoned to understand that how the police are reacting to it is wrong.

 

[TWD26]

I understand your observation there, I don't put value on property over Lives, but I just can't see looting as the best option. In my eyes a peaceful protest would have a greater affect and garner the support of more people and put more pressure on the police force. Because right now there are a lot of people that are turned away by what people see as senseless looting.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I understand your observation there, I don't put value on property over Lives, but I just can't see looting as the best option. In my eyes a peaceful protest would have a greater affect and garner the support of more people and put more pressure on the police force. Because right now there are a lot of people that are turned away by this looting.

Again, your argument here seems to be framed with the idea that the looting is widespread, or that it's indicative of the protest as a whole. It's not, so why continue focusing on it? Why keep talking about it as if it justifies the actions of the police?

 

[Rune]

Brandon, you're right on the money with that autopsy report. The family had a medical examiner flown in who did their own autopsy and they found that there were two bullets holes in the head. One through the eye that pointed down and another at the top of the head, also pointing down. Now, the medical examiner did explain that this could have been caused by him rushing the cop with his head down, but I don't really think that's what happened. Mainly because well... common sense. I don't think you're gonna turn around and rush someone who's shooting at you if you were running away from them in the first place.

I think he dropped to his knees after being shot initially and surrendered. Then the cop double-tapped him in the head. In broad daylight no less.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Brandon, you're right on the money with that autopsy report. The family had a medical examiner flown in who did their own autopsy and they found that there were two bullets holes in the head. One through the eye that pointed down and another at the top of the head, also pointing down. Now, the medical examiner did explain that this could have been caused by him rushing the cop with his head down, but I don't really think that's what happened. Mainly because well... common sense. I don't think you're gonna turn around and rush someone who's shooting at you if you were running away from them in the first place.

I think he dropped to his knees after being shot initially and surrendered. Then the cop double-tapped him in the head. In broad daylight no less.

Good info, thank you. I didn't know the part about the angle of the bullets. That makes things much clearer.

 

[TWD26]

I didn't say they were widespread, but I think we're just going to be running in circles here. We're on different sides of the Libertarian/Authoritarian Spectrums I feel.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I didn't say they were widespread, but I think we're just going to be running in circles here. We're on different sides of the Libertarian/Authoritarian Spectrums I feel.

Possibly. But if you're not suggesting they're widespread, why keep talking about it? Just by making it an issue, you're - probably inadvertently - helping to condone the actions of the police. That's usually why the media talks about looting, because it's a defense of power.

 

[Kaeb]

Harsh language is necessary if your addressing harsh points, especially if those points are condoning fascist military activity because a few unruly disenfranchise kids damaged some property when like 95% of these protests have been typically peaceful and involved.

Your argument makes no sense, is dismissive and given the dangers on display, is downright offensive tbh.

Oh and pro tip, if you want to make the argument that swearing in a debate causes my points to lose credibility, don't then agree with the majority of my points, it makes you look dumb.

 

[TWD26]

Harsh language is necessary if your addressing harsh points, especially if those points are condoning fascist military activity because a few unruly disenfranchise kids damaged some property when like 95% of these protests have been typically peaceful and involved.

Your argument makes no sense, is dismissive and given the dangers on display, is downright offensive tbh.

Oh and pro tip, if you want to make the argument that swearing in a debate causes my points to lose credibility, don't then agree with the majority of my points, it makes you look dumb.

I was offensive how, just because I'm on a different side then you doesn't make me look dumb at all.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Enough, Kaeb. You're adding nothing of value to this conversation.

 

[Kaeb]

Disputing points and addressing the wider spectrum of the debate is pretty literally, adding to the debate mate.

No tolerance for bullshit, especially wilfully ignorant bullshit.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I think he dropped to his knees after being shot initially and surrendered. Then the cop double-tapped him in the head. In broad daylight no less.

I think the cop just pulled his trigger rapidly and those shot placements were incidental. Unless the coroner proved there was a delay between the shots to his body and shots to his head, I don't think the police literally shot him execution style.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I think the cop just pulled his trigger rapidly and those shot placements were incidental. Unless the coroner proved there was a delay between the shots to his body and shots to his head, I don't think the police literally shot him execution style.

Doesn't make it any more acceptable, though. He should not have been shooting, period.