House Bill 2 - North Carolina

[Outlander]

To get in without HB2 is significantly easier. Mike can be experiencing a burst of horomones and feel a bit horny and decide on the spur of the moment, rather than with prior planning, to go in and defile these girls

And, like the other two men who did use disguised, he'd be caught. You're making a huge issue out of a minor component of an actually big issue. Sexual Assault is shockingly high in the states. This, however, is not a way to decrease it.

 

[Prudence]

And, like the other two men who did use disguised, he'd be caught. You're making a huge issue out of a minor component of an actually big issue. Sexual Assault is shockingly high in the states. This, however, is not a way to decrease it.

yes, but lets assume for a second, that not all sexual predators are caught. Do you honestly think anyone who has ever filmed a girl in the restroom without her consent has been caught? I don't believe so myself. I challenge you to go to a site like tumblr, or dailymotion or something with loose restrictions on content and type in "girls bathroom" "girls changing room" or "girls locker room". I promise you that you'll find a ton of hits. And those wouldn't be on the internet if they'd been caught. (don't actually do it because its illegal for you to view porn at your age, and I don't advocate for porn watching anyways. Just using that to make my point)

 

[Outlander]

yes, but lets assume for a second, that not all sexual predators are caught. Do you honestly think anyone who has ever filmed a girl in the restroom without her consent has been caught? I don't believe so myself. I challenge you to go to a site like tumblr, or dailymotion or something with loose restrictions on content and type in "girls bathroom" "girls changing room" or "girls locker room". I promise you that you'll find a ton of hits. And those wouldn't be on the internet if they'd been caught. (don't actually do it because its illegal for you to view porn at your age, and I don't advocate for porn watching anyways. Just using that to make my point)

That's just it. All of your arguments are based on assumptions, twisted evidence, or otherwise baseless accusations. If you want to fight the prevalence of Sexual Assault in this country, we need to promote awareness of it, make access to law enforcement readily available, improve our own investigations into these crimes, as well as working to rehabilitate these people instead of just putting them in jail without catering to their mental ailments. Not making some fear-mongering law based on, at best, circumstantial evidence, and at worst malicious intent against a minority.

 

[Richie B.]

@Prudence what you are saying could happen even if trans weren't allowed into the restrooms, if they are caught recording its still illegal no matter what which is the point that even if boys just go into restrooms the most they can legally do is look, which is very limited even on how long they can look because of fear of assault and all that.

The point is what you are saying is illegal even if trans didn't have the right to go into restrooms they feel they should be allowed in, and only managing to discriminating, sexual predators should go to jail and be stopped but there are better ways at going at it.

 

[Prudence]

That's just it. All of your arguments are based on assumptions, twisted evidence, or otherwise baseless accusations. If you want to fight the prevalence of Sexual Assault in this country, we need to promote awareness of it, make access to law enforcement readily available, improve our own investigations into these crimes, as well as working to rehabilitate these people instead of just putting them in jail. Not making some fear-mongering law based on, at best, circumstantial evidence, and at worst malicious intent against a minority.

Circumstantial? So videos of guys sticking cameras under a stall / changing room door / in the locker room is circumstantial and assumptions? Okay. Yes, access to law enforcement and public awareness are amazing and will do wonders, but when you can enact a law that will protect roughly half your population, and tons of innocents, and the only side effect is that people who choose to deviate from their birth sex are forced to use the restroom with the sex that they literally correlate with.

To use your major argument against you: there are stalls. Have these people go into a stall if they don't want to have to pee with the "opposite gender" from what they choose.

on my list of things that are important to prevent:

rape>privacy invasion>people's comfort

 

[Outlander]

Circumstantial? So videos of guys sticking cameras under a stall / changing room door / in the locker room is circumstantial and assumptions? Okay. Yes, access to law enforcement and public awareness are amazing and will do wonders, but when you can enact a law that will protect roughly half your population, and tons of innocents, and the only side effect is that people who choose to deviate from their birth sex are forced to use the restroom with the sex that they literally correlate with.

To use your major argument against you: there are stalls. Have these people go into a stall if they don't want to have to pee with the "opposite gender" from what they choose.

on my list of things that are important to prevent:

rape>privacy invasion>people's comfort

Yes, it is circumstantial, unless you can prove that they arrived there under false pretenses by claiming they where transgendered. Also, please cite where you're getting these half the population figures.

That works against your own argument as well, i'd like t point out.

That's how i'd list it as well. I'm just not willing to oppress a minority to do it.

 

[Prudence]

Yes, it is circumstantial, unless you can prove that they arrived there under false pretenses by claiming they where transgendered. Also, please cite where you're getting these half the population figures.

That works against your own argument as well, i'd like t point out.

That's how i'd list it as well. I'm just not willing to oppress a minority to do it.

So you'd rather put people in situations where the chances for rape are higher than they otherwise would be to protect someone's comfort? no minority is being suppressed. All we're talking about here is that you can't up and decide you're female and use the women's room. We're not saying you have to use a specifically trans bathroom, or that you can't have the same jobs/seats/voting rights.

 

[Outlander]

So you'd rather put people in situations where the chances for rape are higher than they otherwise would be to protect someone's comfort? no minority is being suppressed. All we're talking about here is that you can't up and decide you're female and use the women's room. We're not saying you have to use a specifically trans bathroom, or that you can't have the same jobs/seats/voting rights.

I'm not gonna fall into that loaded question. From my view, it would be putting no one in any additional danger, and i'll stand by it.

Remember who else had restrictions placed on what bathrooms they could use? Yep, African Americans. This is a slippery slope, like I keep saying.

 

[Richie B.]

@Prudence a minority is being suppressed not sure how you cant see it if you with hold a right from someone its called suppression.

Now as I have said before if more people go into a restroom it will be less likely a crime can happen in it since the assaulter and victim will be found quickly if more people can go into restrooms.

Serious I am pointing out how it can lower the chances of sexual assaults but guess it will continue to be ignored.

 

[Prudence]

I'm not gonna fall into that loaded question. From my view, it would be putting no one in any additional danger, and i'll stand by it.

Remember who else had restrictions placed on what bathrooms they could use? Yep, African Americans. This is a slippery slope, like I keep saying.

You remember who else had restrictions placed on what bathrooms they could use? Yep every gender in america because its still not legal for non trans people to use the opposite gender's restrooms. Restrictions do not equal discrimination.

 

[Outlander]

You remember who else had restrictions placed on what bathrooms they could use? Yep every gender in america because its still not legal for non trans people to use the opposite gender's restrooms. Restrictions do not equal discrimination.

They do when they are targeted at a specific minority based on an unalterable facet of their appearance or biology.

 

[Prudence]

They do when they are targeted at a specific minority based on an unalterable facet of their appearance or biology.

I don't follow. Please clarify your point.

 

[Outlander]

I don't follow. Please clarify your point.

Oppression occurs against groups of people deemed worse than the current dominant based on an arbitrary reason based on their biology, appearance, or beliefs. We've seen this against tons of different groups. So saying these people, who we have evidence to show are physically predisposed to be this way, are denied the rights of everyone else, is oppression.

 

[Prudence]

Oppression occurs against groups of people deemed worse than the current dominant based on an arbitrary reason based on their biology, appearance, or beliefs. We've seen this against tons of different groups. So saying these people, who we have evidence to show are physically predisposed to be this way, are denied the rights of everyone else, is oppression.

Here's your flaw, gender identity can not be physically quantified, so they're not "physically predisposed" to being transsexual. But by your logic, I, a heterosexual white christian male, am discriminated against because I do not have the same rights as a woman to go into the women's restroom.

 

[Outlander]

Here's your flaw, gender identity can not be physically quantified, so they're not "physically predisposed" to being transsexual. But by your logic, I, a heterosexual white christian male, am discriminated against because I do not have the same rights as a woman to go into the women's restroom.

It can be psychologically quantified though. There is evidence to support this along with sexual orientation. And, if you'd like to twist my logic into a bow tie, I can see how you'd say that. But when you say, to an entire minority, that they can't have the same right as you to go to the bathroom of the gender you identify with, that's oppression.

 

[Prudence]

It can be psychologically quantified though. There is evidence to support this along with sexual orientation. And, if you'd like to twist my logic into a bow tie, I can see how you'd say that. But when you say, to an entire minority, that they can't have the same right as you to go to the bathroom of the gender you identify with, that's oppression.

I don't identify with a gender, I can physically see which gender I am. But that's personal opinion and not the foundation of my argument.

And yes it can be psychologically quantified, but psychological quantification isn't physical. Psychology (and I assume you're talking about psychological questioning to determine whether they are, rather than just analyzing chemicals in the brain) has the ability to be false. Someone can fool a psychiatrist. Ask my friend who convinced his shrink that he was completely cured of his depression when they let him out of the psych ward, and then continued to attempt suicide again, only to end up in the same psych ward.

 

[Outlander]

I don't identify with a gender, I can physically see which gender I am. But that's personal opinion and not the foundation of my argument.

And yes it can be psychologically quantified, but psychological quantification isn't physical. Psychology (and I assume you're talking about psychological questioning to determine whether they are, rather than just analyzing chemicals in the brain) has the ability to be false. Someone can fool a psychiatrist. Ask my friend who convinced his shrink that he was completely cured of his depression when they let him out of the psych ward, and then continued to attempt suicide again, only to end up in the same psych ward.

yes you do. We all do. usually, it corresponds with our physical gender. But you identify as a man.

Actually, I was talking about analyzing chemicals and activity in the brain. Which you cannot fake.

 

[Prudence]

yes you do. We all do. usually, it corresponds with our physical gender. But you identify as a man.

Actually, I was talking about analyzing chemicals and activity in the brain. Which you cannot fake.

Yes, but those chemicals can't definitively prove that someone legitimately thinks they're a woman/man, or that they were born like that. The brain is fluid, and as such, changes. They could determine later in life to be transsexual, and that is then not something they were born with. And again, to each his own, but again, I personally do not believe in gender identity.

 

[Richie B.]

Lets remember that we need to separate our religious belief from logic on this topic as the government has to be run without church or any religion influence as per the constitution. So lets not bring any religion in this, it should not be used to make laws, because of the many problems it can cause.

 

[Outlander]

Yes, but those chemicals can't definitively prove that someone legitimately thinks they're a woman/man, or that they were born like that. The brain is fluid, and as such, changes. They could determine later in life to be transsexual, and that is then not something they were born with. And again, to each his own, but again, I personally do not believe in gender identity.

I have literally thousands of people who would call you out on that.