Co-operative Missions

[Ser Gregor]

Nexus, how involved in the RPing of the thread are you going to be? Can you be the RP Admin overseeing it, or will that be a conflict of interest for you?

I'm the leader of the S13 taskforce, but I'm not involved in any way in the two battles.

 

[Kit]

I just think that I ought to point out, that as far as a ground battle is concerned, the only way one's going to be happening involving Republics troops is AFTER the space battle is won.

No military commander is stupid enough to risk troop landings when under fire from an enemy fleet, and I'm no exception. The only ground operation that Republic troops will be involved in is a potential ground based mop-up.

 

[Ser Gregor]

Kupo, that isn't true. Ground battles happen simultaneously with Space battles all the time, at least when taking a planet is the goal.

If you leave the planet safe and sound, you'll be decimated by the planetary defenses. Only way to take it is to send in troops to harry the ground forces while your fleet takes care of the defending fleet.

If you don't send in your troops when the fleet is still off-balance, you're just waisting them, sitting in ships that could easily be blown the **** up. Blockade runners moving in a break in defense caused by your capital ships can make it to the ground, and start the process of taking the planet.

We're trying to move away from spacebattle=only kind of battle, and having ground and space battles simultaneously is a big part of the new rules.

 

[Ru the Boatswain]

No, Kupo should be doing a danger close hyperspace jump where they jump close and immediately open fire. Once that is done the carriers(ships that carry the troops that will be landing) are close enough the landing ships move in and the battle sets in.

Note that a "backup fleet" should be ready for this kind of operation. I'm thinking maybe:

Republic:
3-4 carriers
8-10 capital ships
15-20 battle ships
### inferior ships

Backup

Hutts:
1-2 planetary defense satellites within range of the battle.
3-4 deployed capital ships
9-12 deployed battle ships
40% of inferior ships.

Hutts will deploy more the moment they realize the scale of the attack, but there is no reason to have the fleet deployed. it's wasteful and the ships deployed will not be at stations ready, they will probably be resting or running some maintenance. Maybe a ship or two will be prepared simply because of luck. The planet defense satellites will be ready though and probably return fire only moments after the realization that there is an attack.

 

[Ser Gregor]

Ruu, that's basically what I said. Get in, fire right away, drop your troops and equipment before the Hutts can mobilize 100%

 

[Lavi]

Indeed. The ion cannon at Hoth is a prime example of how crucial it is for an invading fleet to harry planetary defenses.

 

[Ols]

Indeed. The ion cannon at Hoth is a prime example of how crucial it is for an invading fleet to harry planetary defenses.

But this is Nar Shadaa. Cesspit and scumhole. Not secret military base. It seems strange to me that it would have any planetary defenses, especially considering that Nal Hutta would be pretty nicely defended and Shadaa orbits that, and the fact that the Republic would realistically have no interest in conquering a planet like Nar Shadaa, so it wouldn't need them if Hutta wasn't around the corner anyway.

 

[Kaeb]

The Republic would want to secure it for the purposes of their mission. Also Nar Shadda isn't exactly the ecuminopolis we know at this point, it's only really at the birth of it's massive city scape but the planet does have shielding according to the Wookiepedia Article.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The fact that it's right next to Nal Hutta is a perfect example as to why it would have military defenses erected. Yes the Hutts could just mobilize from the planet, but if someone takes the moon then the Hutts are pretty boned.

I also agree with Nexus and Ruukil. The Republic would definitely land forces. We need to get out of the mindset of if you win the space battle you win completely. Ground battles happen simultaneously because they have to.

It's like in the real world, the air force will provide some cover and air support while the ground troops are going in.

 

[Kaeb]

It also happens in every damn Star Wars movie there is. Also Ruukil the Jedi being in the space battle could work for boarding parties but if you're sticking with the ground battle to fight the ground battle then that's alright.

Who will be the designated outside RP Admin then?

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I'd say Nexus, since he's not involved in the battles.

 

[Kaeb]

He's involved in the assassination attempt, I'd vote You tbh.

Matt, Lavi, Ols and Nexus are all involved.

Either you or Sin.

 

[Kit]

Kupo, that isn't true. Ground battles happen simultaneously with Space battles all the time, at least when taking a planet is the goal.

If you leave the planet safe and sound, you'll be decimated by the planetary defenses. Only way to take it is to send in troops to harry the ground forces while your fleet takes care of the defending fleet.

If you don't send in your troops when the fleet is still off-balance, you're just waisting them, sitting in ships that could easily be blown the **** up. Blockade runners moving in a break in defense caused by your capital ships can make it to the ground, and start the process of taking the planet.

We're trying to move away from spacebattle=only kind of battle, and having ground and space battles simultaneously is a big part of the new rules.

I understand where you are coming from, but I've never said, not once that I intend to be fighting this as a land battle. This is a fleet action in support of a covert assassination attempt. Not a war of conquest. If Republic troops end up on Nar Shadda, which I'm almost certain they won't, it will only be for a PR victory, and following a total rout of Hutt space forces.

No, Kupo should be doing a danger close hyperspace jump where they jump close and immediately open fire. Once that is done the carriers(ships that carry the troops that will be landing) are close enough the landing ships move in and the battle sets in.

Note that a "backup fleet" should be ready for this kind of operation. I'm thinking maybe:

Republic:
3-4 carriers
8-10 capital ships
15-20 battle ships
### inferior ships

Backup

Hutts:
1-2 planetary defense satellites within range of the battle.
3-4 deployed capital ships
9-12 deployed battle ships
40% of inferior ships.

Hutts will deploy more the moment they realize the scale of the attack, but there is no reason to have the fleet deployed. it's wasteful and the ships deployed will not be at stations ready, they will probably be resting or running some maintenance. Maybe a ship or two will be prepared simply because of luck. The planet defense satellites will be ready though and probably return fire only moments after the realization that there is an attack.

The Hutts shouldn't be expecting a full scale fleet action, no. Yet again though, there is neither a need nor a point in having troops land on Nar Shadda! The planet may have defences, though if the Hutt homeworld is so close, I imagine most would be garrisoned there, rather than here. Landing forces leaves ships vulnerable, men totally defenceless and the fleet in a difficult position if/when enemy reinforcement arrives.

The Republic would want to secure it for the purposes of their mission. Also Nar Shadda isn't exactly the ecuminopolis we know at this point, it's only really at the birth of it's massive city scape but the planet does have shielding according to the Wookiepedia Article.

What mission? Taking the moon and trying to hold it just leaves Republic forces isolated right next to the Hutt's damned home planet! Unless you want me to immediately launch a massive attack on Nal Hutta and shatter your factions backbone, killing the timeline, then I'll stick to my plan for this mission to start with.

The Space fleet is backup to the assassination attempt. It will attempt to do the job of S13 if it fails, or it will allow the Republic's newest greatest heroes to escape the mayhem that would inevitably follow the decapitation of the Hutt Empire. Perhaps additionally taking the opportunity to severely damage/destroy a confused or maybe even leaderless Hutt fleet.

This isn't a mission of conquest, at all.

The fact that it's right next to Nal Hutta is a perfect example as to why it would have military defenses erected. Yes the Hutts could just mobilize from the planet, but if someone takes the moon then the Hutts are pretty boned.

I also agree with Nexus and Ruukil. The Republic would definitely land forces. We need to get out of the mindset of if you win the space battle you win completely. Ground battles happen simultaneously because they have to.

It's like in the real world, the air force will provide some cover and air support while the ground troops are going in.

I completely disagree. An isolated outpost of Republican forces would be quickly cut off and destroyed outright. It would not hurt the Hutts at all, unless the conquest was immediately followed by ridiculously large scale aggression towards Nal Hutta, not something that's on the cards, yet. It's strategically unsound. It would require massive mobilisation, drawing resources away from areas that may be in need of defence and security, and relies fully on the outcome of a battle that hasn't even been fought yet!

The Republic DOESN'T WANT TO CAPTURE NAR SHADDA. It serves almost no purpose to do so. And there's a massive difference between air support and space support, in that one is reliable and the other one is very firmly not, especially if that space based support is in the midst of a battle.

It also happens in every damn Star Wars movie there is. Also Ruukil the Jedi being in the space battle could work for boarding parties but if you're sticking with the ground battle to fight the ground battle then that's alright.

Who will be the designated outside RP Admin then?

Not true. Or at least, not in this sense. Yes, there are movies where there is a land battle as well as a space battle, but in Star Wars, more often than not (particularly the OT) the space battle is absolutely key. Had the space battle in episode IV, V or even VI gone the way of the Empire, the land forces would be absolutely ****ed, even if the Rebels had won.

In terms of space, the Jedi would be doubtless allocated fighter craft; given that the steps they are currently taking are in that direction, I'm sure the council, GM, whatever, would point out that they are almost perfectly suited for the role and the Republic would agree.

 

[Kaeb]

A massive Hutt Army will be on the surface, the majority of the Bogan along with the Bogan himself, a heavily fortified Nar Shadda at the birth of the ecuminopolis, the presence of the Taung and Independant Factions that have been absorbed into the Empire aswell would all seem like a perfectly oppurtunity to attempt to seize Nal Shardaa if only for a short time in order to secure it. Why would the Republic not attempt to land and quickly obliterate the leadership of the only current threat to itself? I doubt an assasination attempt of the measure you're describing would work when each Faction Leadership will be god damn surrounded by their massive armies and ships that they have on the ground.

If the S13 fail they'll immediately need support either in the form of extraction or a republic response with ground troops.

 

[Ols]

A massive Hutt Army will be on the surface, the majority of the Bogan along with the Bogan himself, a heavily fortified Nar Shadda at the birth of the ecuminopolis.

Nar Shadaa grew up as a criminal spaceport. It might not be the planetwide metropolis that we know from Kotor, but if it's a fortified world then the planet's prime purpose can't function. It has planetary shielding, but nothing more. If it was the station for a massive Hutt Army then it would require massive Hutt barracks, staff and suppliers. And if there are army installations that means high security, which means it's not really going to function for the smugglers and criminals for whom the moon was used. Nar Shadaa grew up as spires around spaceports, and it's birth came from those.

 

[Kaeb]

Nar Shadaa grew up as a criminal spaceport. It might not be the planetwide metropolis that we know from Kotor, but if it's a fortified world then the planet's prime purpose can't function. It has planetary shielding, but nothing more. If it was the station for a massive Hutt Army then it would require massive Hutt barracks, staff and suppliers. And if there are army installations that means high security, which means it's not really going to function for the smugglers and criminals for whom the moon was used. Nar Shadaa grew up as spires around spaceports, and it's birth came from those.

The Army is what we're giving the Bogan while the Bogan provides us with acolytes for use on either side along with contacts and ships. You guys seem to be forgetting that, killing/capturing the leadership can't be your only plan because what's left of the factions will just leave with all those resources, destroying one another is funnily the only way I see this being a win for either side, or at least crippling whatever is brought to the table, also there's the planetary shiedling preventing orbital bombardment.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Please tell me this isn't about to be held up again because we're deciding to change things right before it happens again.

 

[Ols]

You guys seem to be forgetting that, killing/capturing the leadership can't be your only plan because what's left of the factions will just leave with all those resources, destroying one another is funnily the only way I see this being a win for either side, or at least crippling whatever is brought to the table,

None of this is my plan, just ftr. I just think it's stupid for the Republic to try and land an army on a moon that deep in Hutt Space, it's a huge risk that won't pay off. Even if they manage to wipe out everyone on the planet below, by the time they think about extraction their fleet will be boxed in and hammered with wave after wave of Hutt reinforcements. The only way the Republic can get anything from this is if they rely on being quick in and quick out (ie not landing an entire army.)

also there's the planetary shiedling preventing orbital bombardment.

With that in mind it might be an idea for the Republic landing forces, rather than be a massive army to fight the Hutts, to be a small tactical team to take down the shields over the Hutt army to allow orbital bombardment. The S13 assassination mission can occur concurrently and independent of this.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

With that in mind it might be an idea for the Republic landing forces, rather than be a massive army to fight the Hutts, to be a small tactical team to take down the shields over the Hutt army to allow orbital bombardment. The S13 assassination mission can occur concurrently and independent of this.

This is a good idea. It still allows Republic PCs to be involved in a land campaign, which is absolutely needed.

 

[Ols]

Please tell me this isn't about to be held up again because we're deciding to change things right before it happens again.

Best we sort these things out now rather than the thread stalling halfway in.

This is a good idea. It still allows Republic PCs to be involved in a land campaign, which is absolutely needed.

And if a Jedi leads (or a couple are just on it with the Republic soldiers) the mission gets them involved too.