Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice

[BLADE]

 

[Fisk]

Not even surprised.

Snyder is rumoured to return.

I'm not sure if I even care anymore.

This.

And Superman really isn't a "character", at least not in my opinion. He's more of an ideal than anything else.

 

[Manderley]

This.

And Superman really isn't a "character", at least not in my opinion. He's more of an ideal than anything else.

Prepare yourself.

The Prospero is coming.

 

[BLADE]

Superman is very interesting. He's a demigod alien who is more human than most people. He loves to light the Christmas tree when he's back home in Smallville for the holidays and won't even let his dad do it (because it's *his* job.) He's a bit old-fashioned, but he enjoys hip-hop. His fashion sense leaves a lot to be desired, but he's sharp and a great reporter. He has a soft spot for the underdog. He's more of a dog guy than a cat person. He *loves* junk food. He won't ever kill, and hunting's out the question for him, but he's a great fisherman. He takes responsibility for things and for people because it's right and lets people think the worst of him because he can shoulder that burden. He can be biting and cynical but he believes in people; no one gets under his skin, though some (Darkseid, Luthor) get close. He's a terrible driver (not a lot practice) even though he has those Kryptonian reflexes. He loves b-movies. Though in the real-world he'd actually talk down the Tokyo destroying megalizard; because he's kind and because he knows what it's like to be scary to people.

And he's a symbol yeah. But he's also human. He gets scared. First time he went to go see a burn victim at a hospital he actually nearly puked. Sometimes he has a crisis of faith. He's not denominational, but he might believe in something. Or not. It goes back and forth. Superman is us. The punching of bald mad scientists and lifting of buildings and outracing of powerful locomotives are only externalized and stylized representations of goals that we all aspire to.

tl;dr I love Superman as a character. I love him for what he represents. The idea that he's not relatable, or is boring, or has to be grimdark is a disservice to a character that made me smile many times throughout my life.

He's not disinteresting. He's not one-dimensional. He's not a bird nor a plane. He's Superman!

Because I'm lazy.

 

[Manderley]

Called it.

 

[Fisk]

A superhero whose only weakness is a glowing green rock is not a "character".

A superhero who's susceptible to illness, injury, physical and emotional distress is.

I'm probably part of the minority when I say this, but I've always felt disconnected from Superman. He's an alien who's impervious to pretty much everything. But, if you take someone like Spider-Man, a character who millions of people have grown to love ever since his debut, you find yourself able to relate to him on a deeper, emotional level.

As a character, Superman is subpar. He's not the only superhero who's bound to protecting humanity and performing feats for the greater good, either.

 

[Manderley]

 

[BLADE]

A superhero whose only weakness is a glowing green rock is not a "character".

Or magic. Or his own emotional hang-ups. His morals. His ethics. His physical superiors.

A superhero who's susceptible to illness, injury, physical and emotional distress is.

My character Haemophilia Man has made me millions!

I'm probably part of the minority when I say this, but I've always felt disconnected from Superman. He's an alien who's impervious to pretty much everything. But, if you take someone like Spider-Man, a character who millions of people have grown to love ever since his debut, you find yourself able to relate to him on a deeper, emotional level.

Which is your prerogative. I too like Spidey. I do however engage with these characters on their merits. Your post betrays a basic ignorance of what makes Superman... Super.

As a character, Superman is subpar. He's not the only superhero who's bound to protecting humanity and performing feats for the greater good, either.

All superheroes have to occupy one single niche.

 

[Fisk]

Or magic. Or his own emotional hang-ups. His morals. His ethics. His physical superiors.

His "physical superiors" can probably be confined to a small list. I don't know all there is to know about Superman, but you have to admit; if he really wanted to, he could easily go out of his way to curb-stomp most of his "foes".

My character Haemophilia Man has made me millions!

Not sure what this is referring to. Could you elaborate?

Which is your prerogative. I too like Spidey. I do however engage with these characters on their merits. Your post betrays a basic ignorance of what makes Superman... Super.

What makes Superman "super" is his invulnerability and his undying desire to bring good to humankind and shield it from harm. Anything else that serves as the foundation for his personality can easily be drawn from other superheroes, both in the DC and Marvel universes. His quirks, his habits, entire character traits? Other than the fact that his comics have been in publish for over seventy-five years, nothing else really makes him "unique".

All superheroes have to occupy one single niche.

I agree. Which Superman does. I just don't care for his character, is all.

 

[©razy Man]

Psh I love Superman. He may seem overpowered like you stated before Fisk but he fights over powered villains=awesomeness. Though I have to say I like Batman more it's just cooler that he's in the same level as a lot of Superheroes even though his disadvantage.

 

[Phil]

Actually it looks more like the Dark Knight Returns crest, which is bad.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JRRYOUYoc...AUw/i--XcKe7ljY/s1600/Dark+Knight+Returns.png

I hate that symbol. It looks so... fat and stretched out. It's just fugly.

 

[BLADE]

His "physical superiors" can probably be confined to a small list.

And? That's true of most superheroes. Otherwise they wouldn't be "super."

I don't know all there is to know about Superman, but you have to admit; if he really wanted to, he could easily go out of his way to curb-stomp most of his "foes".

Yes and Batman would have a lot easier time if he killed. Spider-Man would do a lot more for the city if he equipped the police with his web-slingers for non-lethal takedowns. Reed Richards should have cured cancer by now, and Tony Stark should stop being a drun

Not sure what this is referring to. Could you elaborate?

Sarcasm. The "logic" that a character has to be more vulnerable to be more "human" is nonsense and reductive nonsense at that. It's why Spider-Man is stuck in arrested development (can't ever grow up, put some of his life in order, stay married, etc.) to give one of many, many examples.

What makes Superman "super" is his invulnerability and his undying desire to bring good to humankind and shield it from harm.

Nope. What makes Superman "super" is that he's essentially a God and he doesn't care or use it to further his own ends. In essence, what makes Superman "super" is his idealized upbringing. His morality is his true superpower.

Anything else that serves as the foundation for his personality can easily be drawn from other superheroes, both in the DC and Marvel universes. His quirks, his habits, entire character traits? Other than the fact that his comics have been in publish for over seventy-five years, nothing else really makes him "unique".

So literary cannibalism and self-plagiarism are good writing now?

k

I agree. Which Superman does. I just don't care for his character, is all.

WHOA. That went over your head.

My point, dearie, is that trying to pigeonhole these characters into strict archetypes ends up stultifying their actual characters. It's hard to make a character human (your self-stated goal) when you're trying to put them into niches.

The most annoying thing about these critiques is that they're lazy regurgitations of stuff we've heard for decades. We get it. You don't personally find Superman interesting. Why this is germane let alone trenchant in a World's Finest discussion speaks more to a narcissistic mode of literary criticism than anything else. Again. Engage with the character on his merits (though whether he has any in the MoS depiction is highly debatable) or don't engage at all.

tl;dr This discussion is a distraction from the movie.

For example, do you guys think it has any chance of being good? Will they bring in someone else to check Snyder/Goyer given that MoS --while more successful than Returns-- was not a runaway hit? What would be your dream cast/writing and directing team?

And so forth.

I'll go first. I think Neil Blomkamp and Paul Dini would be a good combination for a movie like this. Or Whedon and Dini. Maybe bring in Timm as another executive producer. Get some creative consultancy from the old timers (O'Neill) as well as the promising new comic book writers (Snyder, Azzarello.)

As far as my preferred Batman? Idris Elba or Jon Hamm. I'd feel this continuity's Batman would be five-ten years older than Cavill's Superman.

 

[Manderley]

Oh, and it continues. Let's see if Fisk can keep it going?

 

[Endling vas Precious]

Superman + Batman = ManMan

 

[Manderley]

SuperBat

 

[Icaro]

ITT: People who don't know anything about superman.

 

[Shiuzu]

[youtube]6RWMc-EdDRY&[/youtube]

Just gonna leave this here. Also I'd read the hell out of this.

 

[Kaeb]

I was literally halfway through that video just a second ago.

Really ****ing good stuff.

 

[Shiuzu]

I enjoyed it. Though his utter destruction of most of the worlds heroes was pretty brutal.

 

[Kaeb]

The whole thing was almost like a rant against how everything was handled in Man of Steel.