Voice your thoughts and complaints about this Faction

[Brand]

It shouldn't matter, I mean, hell- I've been IC with the faction for about a week, I've been OOC with the faction for about two - three months, and every voice counts, the problem is that Whenever something is taken, considered, and denied, there shouldn't be a continuous protesting of it and there shouldn't be some ridiculous coup because of the fact that some people don't agree with mulluns, you, arm, johnny, or myself. I'm being taken off of the roster for now, and I will surely be back- do not worry.

Lol. We're contesting the decisions because they aren't feasible.

 

[Veritas et Lux]

It's okay. I understand, and therefore we're doing things about it. Now, I would appreciate it if I could have some patience, along with some peace while I substantiate the IC aspect of Mitya jioning the Mandalorians now that I've pm'd mulluns to take me off of the roster. Thanks so much.

 

[Mars]

It shouldn't matter, I mean, hell- I've been IC with the faction for about a week, I've been OOC with the faction for about two - three months, and every voice counts, the problem is that Whenever something is taken, considered, and denied, there shouldn't be a continuous protesting of it and there shouldn't be some ridiculous coup because of the fact that some people don't agree with mulluns, you, arm, johnny, or myself. I'm being taken off of the roster for now, and I will surely be back- do not worry.

If you think the only issue here is that something got denied, once, you're wrong. While that may have sparked all this, the response those with problems have gotten is sad, and the fact that we can't challenge you guys in the upper-crust to change things makes it worse because we have no way to influence things then. If Phil wants to say "It's my way or the high way," that's unintelligent, fine with me though, but don't complain when the faction gets rolled by the Chiss or Imperials cause they have driven away some of their best writers.

 

[Phil]

BTW, I intend to have this thread stay open or be restarted if necessary. It helps out that I know of issues and try my best to resolve them, or we I should say. I also want to say again that no one be afraid to voice their opinion or complaint, because if something is not being protsted about here by anyone, then I will assume there is no problem with said thing until it's complained about.

I'll respond again to everything that needs to be responded too in a bit. I have a terrible stomach ache from this sudden tidle wave of comments.

I will say though I am dissapointed slightly. I wanted to resolve this without Admins coming in to admin this thread. Rather someone called them in for whatever reason or they themselves decided to jump in, It was not needed and the more we can resolve this peacefully without them, the better I think.

 

[Michael Scott]

the mando's should have a battle of thermopylae against the sith or the chiss or soemthing.

 

[Jiang Winters]

BTW, I intend to have this thread stay open or be restarted if necessary. It helps out that I know of issues and try my best to resolve them, or we I should say. I also want to say again that no one be afraid to voice their opinion or complaint, because if something is not being protsted about here by anyone, then I will assume there is no problem with said thing until it's complained about.

I'll respond again to everything that needs to be responded too in a bit. I have a terrible stomach ache from this sudden tidle wave of comments.

I will say though I am dissapointed slightly. I wanted to resolve this without Admins coming in to admin this thread. Rather someone called them in for whatever reason or they themselves decided to jump in, It was not needed and the more we can resolve this peacefully without them, the better I think.

I'm speaking my mind as an RP'er and a member of this site. Believe you me, things would be handled far differently if we'd been called in to handle this in an official capacity.

 

[Veritas et Lux]

I was going to propose a skirmish that way some writers could get some action and Mitya could have a little bit more substance under her belt, but I'm not part of the faction anymore :p

all i'm going to do is finish threads i've started, contribute oocly, and focus on another character.

 

[Bad Wolf]

sorry Syn I spaced it, wasn't trying to leave you out of it, just well spaced it lol.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

I'm speaking my mind as an RP'er and a member of this site. Believe you me, things would be handled far differently if we'd been called in to handle this in an official capacity.

Bustin' skulls!

I disagree with Mulluns' choice to make her a general, but I can see why she'd have a higher rank given the reputation for Jedi as fierce warriors and Mando respect for their combat abilities historically. General? No. An officer most assuredly.

 

[Livgardist]

^^^

Just popped in to say; Agrees with the above.

 

[Mars]

Bustin' skulls!

I disagree with Mulluns' choice to make her a general, but I can see why she'd have a higher rank given the reputation for Jedi as fierce warriors and Mando respect for their combat abilities historically. General? No. An officer most assuredly.

So much for all of top command thinking she should be a General.

 

[Fusion]

Can I start blowing Mandos up now, Syn? :P

 

[Syn]

No not until the order comes down for the rain

 

[Fusion]

*scene shifts to show the entire Subach-Innes fleet over Mandalore*

Ma'am, we can't fire our guns yet!

Damn it... Tell those guys on the ground to hurry the hell up and resolve this!

 

[Phil]

Right. Round 2.

Then she should start at a low rank, not as general. Period. If she's proving herself anyways, then she needs to work through the ranks, not start out at the top merely because she has a mission under her belt and she's helped OOC'ly. I'm not dismissing Blue's OOC contributions, but it's a very serious issue when her character is instantly gaining a high rank over honest-to-goodness Mandalorian characters.

Apparenty, both me and Nick were under the assumtion that Johnny also agreed. As Mars pointed out by Johnny's quote, it was not. That is the fault of mine and Nick, a miscomunication. So this issue it being looked into, if people are angry, then be angry at us for it.

Minority or not, you have a duty to tend to their concerns. Casually dismissing their complaints as those of 'the minority' is very shortsighted.

I never said I would dismiss them, but if 15 people say Nay to something and 5 others say Yay to the same thing, I have to agree to the majority. I would try to do what I could, but sometimes you just can't make everyone happy, and they are going to be upset. That does not mean they immediatly got to go and revolt.

That's a very substantial change to their culture, though, and you're already IC'ly chewing characters out for adhering to the 'old ways' when your 'new ways' aren't even posted or clearly defined. That's just not okay.

No, it's not. I was going to be doing write ups before I was suddenly swamped with said PN in my sig, then this whole challenge thing came up and I've been under a lot of things of late.

I strongly advise against that, Phil. It appears to be little more than a way to restrict challenges as so to reduce the threat from them.

Things need rules or guidelines, otherwise we have anarchy. I suggest you look and read them before casting judgment, as do others. If they have issues, then this thread is for that.

No. This is not your faction. This faction belongs to its members, and by their grace you are its leader. IC'ly, it may be 'your way or the highway', but OOCly that is simply not the case. Your duties are to administrate and lead the faction, not to dictate 'this is how it is' to its members. If they desire change, it is your duty to deliver that. If they have an issue with anything in the faction, it's your duty to tend to that issue. Your first priority is always to the members of your faction, never to vague ideals of what the faction should be in your mind.

This is what this thread is for. So far, I have yet to see a post that says we are, as a faction, going in the wrong direction.

And people have tried to challenge you, but you have turned them down each and every time. It's a revolving door - challengers enter, you devise a way to tell them no, and you punt them right back out.

CHallenges I recieved: 2
Challenger 1: Horizon. His character was not even a Mandalorian on the faction, and so his words fell on deaf ears.
Challenger 2: Corden. Still in progress. I stated there would be no Leadership Challenge because "Because determining leadership of a faction and hundreds of thousands of people, if not even more, to someone still new, both IC and OOC, who's only reason he is even stating is "I want to lead" is foolish to even consider." I underline that because I feel people have blantantly ignored it and just said "Honor" is reason enough, which is false. I never said it was all off though, and if he wants to challenge me and fight, then he's more then welcome. It's not going to be for the faction though as he is wanting.

This is why I want to put up guidelines for challenges, so not every single person is challenging another over something that can be resolved in a simple manner and to prevent anarchy from occuring.

If you feel a need to change the faction, you should post your preliminary write-ups in the OOC board and get feedback from everyone, not just your circle of friends. You need community feedback before you so much as consider modifying the Mandalorians or any of their tenets.

I run it past both Johnny and Nick because they are 2nd and 3rd in command, and in turn must read it before others. Once then, it's posted and if people have gripes, then it's here that they need to post it.

This is NOT the kind of attitude we want Faction Leaders to have. None of the Faction leaders were told "Hey just do whatever and don't give a shit about what people say. If they don't like it they can gtfo." I have no idea where you derived that so don't act like this kind of behavior is justified. Like Jiang said, you're supposed to cater to your members. They are the foundations of the faction. Just because you're the leader doesn't mean you can just sweep every issue under the rug and chalk it up to 'oh it's a minority who cares'. It'd be one thing if these were idiotic noobs that didn't know what they were talking about. However, these are obviously intelligent people that know a thing or two about Mandalorians. Yet you constantly keep turning down any attempts at voicing their thoughts or challenging you. I don't know why you're so dead against taking up a challenge, but please don't try to make excuses like 'I was told it was my way or the highway' because you most certainly were not told that.

Again, I've only had two challenges, one from a nom faction member and another is still in progress. I am doing what is best for the Faction, what I think and what the other higher ups think is best. And I'm doing what I can so that if I am no longer factionleader, then it's going to be someone who will still carry the faction on instead of driving it to the ground or from someone not experianced enough. Knowledge on a Faction does not immediatly mean they know better.

Also, just to extend on this- but yes he is supposed to 'consider them', no? Just because the same people are bringing up the same issue over and over, amplifying a seemingly small problem after Phil has shot them down does not sound as if it's some terrible crisis and he is a bad leader. I believe solely that Phil is a great leader, that is why I joined in the first place. But it is okay, things are going to be solved. Not only did we ask for patience and you not give it to us, but we actually are doing things. It's not as if every single step to Mitya and Roxton reinforcing Mitya's advancement IC-wise is everybody else's business OOCly, the complaints are IC so therefore wait until it's been done. I already told Phil to take me off of the roster while we do this. SO thanks, thank you very much for the patience.... Just peachy.

Yeah, thanks for that.

They're still members of the faction. Their opinions and desires count just as much as yours. Post count and join date is irrelevant - so long as they are active in the faction, they deserve a voice.

It can to an extent. Corden's first day was asking for Commander rank, and I said no, so he withdrew his application because he didn't get what he wanted. I did not know him, nor did I know his skill, other then he really liked Mandalorians. But just because one knows about a faction greatly does NOT mean they are fit to lead it.

Yes, it is important to listen to people, but they should not always suspect they will get what they want.

My only concern is that with the "change" to the faction that phil is proposing, I don't want to see the "Peaceful" Mandalorians of clone wars days, those were not Mandalorians those were tree hugging peace loving hippies who said make love not war, I didn't sign up to be a hippie I signed up to be a Mandalorian.

I can assure you we are NOT going in that direction. It's more along the line that we're not the generic Mandalorians who want to fight and challenge everything for the sake of pitty honor while isolating yourselves from everyone else. It's called Evolution, something some people here just don't want for whatever reason.

If you think the only issue here is that something got denied, once, you're wrong. While that may have sparked all this, the response those with problems have gotten is sad, and the fact that we can't challenge you guys in the upper-crust to change things makes it worse because we have no way to influence things then. If Phil wants to say "It's my way or the high way," that's unintelligent, fine with me though, but don't complain when the faction gets rolled by the Chiss or Imperials cause they have driven away some of their best writers.

Then post them! Just saying there are issues in the faction without even stating what they are are just going to be ignored.

 

[Dread]

I am pro rules and guidelines for the challenge.

I don't think a private(not saying there is one, this is an example) should be challenging Mandolore. If people really care about things making IC sense, then that shouldn't be an oversight simply because you OOCly like someone. It'll also help take stress off both sides, since if theres rules and guidelines in place, neither side will be able to question the challengers validly if they match up.

If the rules and guidelines end up preventing Corden from dueling Phil now, it only means it postpones the duel. As long as Corden stays eager to fight and willing to work for it, of course.

 

[Veritas et Lux]

Spoiler: INSPIRED BY FUSION'S PORTRAYED SCENE

She stood there under the apple-tree, draped in robes and flowers of spring. The unforgiving frost that once covered the ground had subsided finally with the end of winter's life- until she was to be reborn again. The green meadow hill from which she stood, clutching the tree in the tall grass, seemed to be the only thing for miles and miles. Yet off in the distance, she could see the great city-scape of the hearkened world. End of days be among them? She wondered.

And as the shadows on on the ground grew to stretch across the horizon and forth, the sun became blocked out from the ever-roaring engines of battle cruisers. Mere coincidence? Dare to think so. As the wind stirred bringing forth melancholy smells of whiskey and tomatoes- a giant's sword seemed to fall onto the city, killing off the smells of factories from which were produced....

She watched as the city lay in shambles, a fiery landscape of molten ruin and dust. Lithium six and Lithium seven, under such great pressure from the split atom's chain reaction, plumed high above the planet in a mushroom of intense ionizing radiation. After the planet's capital had been brought to it's knees and finally decimated under the reign of terror, the great metal giants in the sky turned to the rest of the world, starting with her peaceful meadow.

The sky darkened and ash rained down upon her and the rest of nature's beauty. Life as was known in the tranquility of the meadow had been reduced to terrible shades of gray and orange. But as the nuclear fallout nestled sinisterly upon the tree, it had no avail against the loving apples in the tree, no effects on the woman's preservation. However she knew... She knew that the ships would soon bring the chain reactions that burned and destroyed. The tree's love wouldn't sustain the blast, and nevermore in her life did she wish the impossible- to build a bunker and place the tree within it. However it was too late... The brook was black and the grass was gray. The sky was torn open, revealing the orange and black tyranny that ate all.

She fell to her now dirty knees, and panted before the one lonely tear, the tear that stood for innumerable days lost this day, slowly kissed her cheek for farewell...
As she looked up, with tears in her eyes, she pulled from her pocket a lowly cowboy-killer, her father's last intention as she took it from his cold dead hand, and lit it using the lighter that was in his other hand. Puffing at the toxic roll, she awaited the hammer to fall.........

So the question that now stands, is not whether or not she should be general and what she has to do. But if there are substantiating in character role-plays that back up the acceptance of Mitya Ivanovna as a mandalorian, will everybody be okay with that?

 

[Jiang Winters]

Right. Round 2.
Apparenty, both me and Nick were under the assumtion that Johnny also agreed. As Mars pointed out by Johnny's quote, it was not. That is the fault of mine and Nick, a miscomunication. So this issue it being looked into, if people are angry, then be angry at us for it.

Alright.

I never said I would dismiss them, but if 15 people say Nay to something and 5 others say Yay to the same thing, I have to agree to the majority. I would try to do what I could, but sometimes you just can't make everyone happy, and they are going to be upset. That does not mean they immediatly got to go and revolt.

If 15 people say 'Nay' and 5 say 'Yay', then you should work to find a compromise rather than simply chase down majority ruling. Those 5 RP'ers are still 5 RP'ers; you need to work to find balance and solutions that all sides can agree to. People won't resort to a revolt unless they feel they're being actively wronged or ignored.

No, it's not. I was going to be doing write ups before I was suddenly swamped with said PN in my sig, then this whole challenge thing came up and I've been under a lot of things of late.

Then why are you still chewing out Mandalorians for following the 'old ways', ala Corden's character? If it's not a substantial change, then I don't see why nailing him for being old-fashioned would be logical or necessary.

Things need rules or guidelines, otherwise we have anarchy. I suggest you look and read them before casting judgment, as do others. If they have issues, then this thread is for that.

Mm, indeed. I've read this thread virtually from start to finish, and so far I've seen nothing that would suggest that dueling rules are necessary, especially when a dueling/challenge system is literally built into Mandalorian society. If you start receiving challenges left and right, to the point that you get at least once every few days, then I can see there being a need. For now, however, you seem to have received relatively few.

This is what this thread is for. So far, I have yet to see a post that says we are, as a faction, going in the wrong direction.

As a faction, no. Plenty of concerns - which you already know, as you've been reading the thread - have been voiced, however.

CHallenges I recieved: 2
Challenger 1: Horizon. His character was not even a Mandalorian on the faction, and so his words fell on deaf ears.
Challenger 2: Corden. Still in progress. I stated there would be no Leadership Challenge because "Because determining leadership of a faction and hundreds of thousands of people, if not even more, to someone still new, both IC and OOC, who's only reason he is even stating is "I want to lead" is foolish to even consider." I underline that because I feel people have blantantly ignored it and just said "Honor" is reason enough, which is false. I never said it was all off though, and if he wants to challenge me and fight, then he's more then welcome. It's not going to be for the faction though as he is wanting.

If he issues you a challenge, if you duel him, and if he wins, he WILL receive control of the Mandalorians. Period. It doesn't matter what IC or OOC restrictions you attempt to place on it, if Corden challenges you for the title Mandalore and he wins, he will have it. It's as simple as that. [That's me speaking as an Admin, btw.]

Again, revolving door approach. You used one convenient reason or another, either IC or OOC, to deflect both threats to your position.

This is why I want to put up guidelines for challenges, so not every single person is challenging another over something that can be resolved in a simple manner and to prevent anarchy from occuring.

Two challenges, one more or less illegitimate, one legitimate, and you want to put restrictions in place? Phil, that's not instituting rules to prevent anarchy, that's attempting to cement your position pure and simple.

I run it past both Johnny and Nick because they are 2nd and 3rd in command, and in turn must read it before others. Once then, it's posted and if people have gripes, then it's here that they need to post it.

I still firmly believe that you should open it to community review and revision before posting it. Any changes to Mandalorian culture NEED approval of your RP'ers - the best comparison I can draw would be if the Jedi Order decided to start modifying their tenets. It's unthinkable to do so without approval of the bulk of the Order.

Again, I've only had two challenges, one from a nom faction member and another is still in progress. I am doing what is best for the Faction, what I think and what the other higher ups think is best. And I'm doing what I can so that if I am no longer factionleader, then it's going to be someone who will still carry the faction on instead of driving it to the ground or from someone not experianced enough. Knowledge on a Faction does not immediatly mean they know better.

Again, if you are challenged and defeated, the challenger will take your place. It's that simple and that straightforward.

It can to an extent. Corden's first day was asking for Commander rank, and I said no, so he withdrew his application because he didn't get what he wanted. I did not know him, nor did I know his skill, other then he really liked Mandalorians. But just because one knows about a faction greatly does NOT mean they are fit to lead it.

Yes, it is important to listen to people, but they should not always suspect they will get what they want.

Different situation. That was a request for rank. I'm talking about listening to concerns about direction, modifications to the faction as a whole, about the cornucopia of little details that combine to make the Mandalorians as a whole into a functional, fun faction. If someone speaks, you should always, always listen and take their suggestions seriously. I'm not saying to hand out ranks like candy as that's a different situation entirely, but when people have concerns or suggestions they need to be listened to.

tl;dr: If they're a member, they have a voice and they deserve to be heard.

I can assure you we are NOT going in that direction. It's more along the line that we're not the generic Mandalorians who want to fight and challenge everything for the sake of pitty honor while isolating yourselves from everyone else. It's called Evolution, something some people here just don't want for whatever reason.

Petty honor? Mandalorian culture revolves around the ideals of honor and glory. To deem any aspect of honor 'petty' is absolutely unthinkable, and to attempt to shift any amount of focus away from honor is equally absurd.

 

[Jiang Winters]

If the rules and guidelines end up preventing Corden from dueling Phil now, it only means it postpones the duel. As long as Corden stays eager to fight and willing to work for it, of course.

Any rules created will not affect Corden's challenge, as the rules/guidelines will come after the fact. It'd be unfair to attempt to impose them upon Corden in any way.

 

[Veritas et Lux]

Actually, I agree so much with Corden it's not even funny...
But the thing that you have to realize is that this still is a roleplaying forum. Accuracy to canon only goes so far, and despite that we have to make things nice and peachy, organized, and structured for the sake that there are actual members on the site participating in factions such as these, you have to admit that we're still pretty damn well on the bulls-eye. Not considering that ONE person cannot run a faction by them own gosh-darn (i don't feel like cursing) selves and needs help just as any other faction does, therefore the high command is formed- not just to please or create an IC experience, but to actually keep things going 'behind the scenes', the structured ranking system of the roleplay forum is still needed for the sake of staff members vs. forum members.

If you do not like this, than by all means go create your own independent faction because that is what the independent factions board is there for. Other than that, you cannot possibly say that if mandalore were to die that johnny, arm, or even myself (unlikely) would take the position, but if that didn't happen I'm sure that there would be some kind of OOC event that would determine what happened, whether it be a new mandalore, the faction dying, or even an entire story change in the timeline.

I disagree with many things you are saying, Jiang, and this earlier post explains why. Yes there's the very big need for canon accuracy, but things change and things need to be handled as an rp site should