"The Raid" Actors to be in Episode VII

[jpchewy01]

http://deadline.com/2015/01/the-raid-action-trio-tapped-for-star-wars-episode-vii-1201341337/

I think Kaeb just had an orgasm.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Imagine the scene from the first one where one guy gets his head bashed repeatedly against a wall... but with a lightsaber.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I approve of this decision.

 

[TwoSidedHeart]

Wait, people like this but will bitch endlessly that the prequels had 'too much unbelievable action'? XD

The fights in those Raid movies are pretty cool though. ^_^

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

The Raid was far more believable because it was real. The prequels had a bunch of CGI or wires and what basically was sword dancing.

So if they are bringing in people who are trained and professional stunt actors in addition to fighters then any combat choreography will probably be top notch.

 

[Bee]

I literally just bought The Raid today.

 

[TwoSidedHeart]

I suppose. Still, I think the fights in the prequels were the best they could do, what with half the actors actually doing it themselves. ^_^ Of course, I don't think the kinds of fights in 'The Raid' would fit between Jedi etc. o_O Maybe like a Bounty Hunter? Gwendoline Christies Inevitable Badass Character? XD Ooooh Id enjoy seeing some stormtroopers ACTUALLY use their training for once. -_- XD

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

I suppose. Still, I think the fights in the prequels were the best they could do, what with half the actors actually doing it themselves. ^_^ Of course, I don't think the kinds of fights in 'The Raid' would fit between Jedi etc. o_O Maybe like a Bounty Hunter? Gwendoline Christies Inevitable Badass Character? XD Ooooh Id enjoy seeing some stormtroopers ACTUALLY use their training for once. -_- XD

The fights in the prequels were panned because it was essentially sword dancing. A lot of flair and unnecessary movements and at times the people in the fight weren't even aiming at each other. It looks impressive as far as a light show goes, but not a fight.

True, I would not want to see some Raid style combat, but the choreography and some more technical fighting prowess would definitely fit for Stormtroopers or other characters in this universe. Remember that lightsaber battles aren't going to be common place here so most physical fighting will probably be done hand to hand.

 

[TwoSidedHeart]

I think that this movie could cause riots. Just throw in a scene where 1000 Sith and 1000 Jedi with cross guard sabers and blaster sabers go at one another Raid style. And all of them are Gungans.

That would be kinda cool though. XD But the bitching would never end.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I wouldn't want to see the exact same fighting style as "The Raid" put into Star Wars. What "The Raid" does well, though, is two things:

1. Provide fairly realistic fight scenes, considering that the people in it are trained in that kind of fighting, where you can feel the intensity. You're invested in them.

2. Provide good cinematography for fights. A lot of times fighting in movies and TV sucks because they focus a lot on quick cuts, to the point where you can barely see anything, because the quick cutting is meant to make the fight look intense. It's also a way of hiding stunt doubles. "The Raid" has good choreography and cinematography.

Considering how things have been going at Lucasfilm, I would guess a few things about fighting in Episode VII:

1. The overly-choreographed nature of the prequel fights will not return. As Johnny said, it was basically sword dancing. The prequel fights were definitely not the best they could do. It was a specific style that George Lucas chose because he wanted the fights of the "golden age of the Jedi" to be more operatic, but unfortunately it missed the mark. The "duel of the fates" in Episode I was alright, but it suffered from these same problems. It's just that Episode I, for all its many faults, was the most competent of the prequels, and it was the first huge sword fight of the saga, so it's easier to overlook.

2. The OT will be a guide/starting point, as it has been since Disney took over. Abrams and Kasdan are both very likely aware of the slower but more emotionally-involved duels of the OT, which were superior to the prequels. The prequels went mostly for flash and lacked the necessary emotional investment, whereas the OT duels were less about the duels themselves and more about what the duels represented in the story.

3. Episode VII will have shorter but more intense duels. Shorter is better; the long fights of the prequels got worse as they went along and became boring. The duel on Mustafar was tedious.

So my prediction is that the fights will be short, but they will be physically intense, and will have the emotional investment that the duels of the OT had. Which I think will be a nice, unique style for this trilogy when compared to the previous two trilogies. It makes sense, too, considering there are barely any Jedi in this era and the dark siders will also be few and probably relatively untrained. I could see the characters using brute force to compensate for a lack of swordsmanship. Then Luke Skywalker could appear and be the great swordsman, the one who kicks everybody elses' asses.

Considering that Disney/the Episode VII team are well aware of the faults of the prequels, and have better technology and access to better choreography than the OT did, Episode VII could very well give us the best fighting styles of the saga.

 

[TwoSidedHeart]

I dont think Star Wars lightsaber fights are meant to be completely realistic in the first place. It is a bunch of religious mystics with laser swords going up against either their polar opposites, cyborgs etc. XD And I thought the prequels were pretty good fights. I think its unfair to say how bad they were and that they lacked emotional oomph.

- The Duel of the Fates was very emotionally charged because you could see the two Jedi characters were actually uncertain how to approach this while Maul brought overwhelming arrogance and awesome skills. Then it got really personal when Qui Gon died and they upped the ante as you could see the anger on Obi Wans face, something we hadn't seen before. Also, it was really fast paced and obviously well practiced.
- Episode two didnt have the best saber duels, but Obi Wan vs Jango was AMAZING as it featured someone without a lightsaber going up against a Jedi and pretty much winning. It was totally badass. And both Ewan and Temura built up a great amount of tension in the scenes beforehand to add to it.
- Episode three had awesome fights. Dooku getting killed by Anakin was a great way to introduce how close to the darkside Anakin had gotten between Two and three. Kenobi v Grievous was something new and I felt like that fight was made when they both lost their sabers and got more personal about it. Grievous tossed Kenobi around like a rag doll. XD Sidious v Four Jedi was awesome since it showed how easily Palpatine could get rid of Jedi but then proceeded to give him an enemy he couldnt just power through with Mace who was 'the second baddest Jedi in the universe". And with Anakin intervening I thought that fight had a good amount of emotionally value as it was essentially the embodiment of Anakins confliction with the light and dark. And Anakin v Obi Wan WAS emtionally charged. We had literally just watched Anakin slaughter a bunch of people, almost kill his wife and had Obi Wan BEG not to be sent to kill his 'brother'. The fight itself was fast paced, had a pretty large scale and featured some of the best acting of Hayden Christenson of the entire franchise as you could almost FEEL the anger etc coming from him. His facial expressions were on point. XD And then the speech at the end. "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!" C'mon, I know for a fact that ALOT of star wars fans got chills at that point.

To end my little episode... XD I'll just say that people on this site have an overwhelming need to site the faults of the prequels. Allow me to offer a few comparisons.

- Unnecessary Comical characters who fight the bad guys, are almost beaten until the bad guys star ship is blown up and then they win: Gungans/Ewoks.
- Bad Acting: Mainly Hayden Christenson in Attack of the Clones whos JOB was to portray an annoying, whiny little baby and succeeded./ May I point out Mark Hammil in A New Hope? They say a good actor can make people hate a character.
- Emotional Scope was the 'most powerful and the darkest in Empire'. Revenge of the Sith topples that by far.

Honestly, I feel like people could pick a part the prequels for years and still be blind to the faults of the originals, which are equally deserving of hate in all honestly. I LOVE the entire saga, but if you're going to bash one aspect of it, at least observe the aspect you hold in high esteem.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

I dont think Star Wars lightsaber fights are meant to be completely realistic in the first place. It is a bunch of religious mystics with laser swords going up against either their polar opposites, cyborgs etc. XD And I thought the prequels were pretty good fights. I think its unfair to say how bad they were and that they lacked emotional oomph.

As Brandon said the prequel fights were meant to be more spectacle fights so having some show set pieces or moves does make sense to a degree. PT just didn't deliver. The emotion of any of the fights were robbed by their length and just how quick people were to flash sabers. In the OT somebody having a lightsaber meant something. When it came out you knew you were about to see a pivotal scene. That's why the PT had to try and throw out new saber ideas or fighting styles every episode from then on because the laser swords lacked the same weight they had previously.

They dragged on and were to showy so that the held emotion ended up becoming fatiguing and as Brandon said the fight was just boring. Especially in terms of a prequel story where a fight involving Obi-Wan, Yoda, or Anakin any tension in the moment was lost when you know how it will play out (or at least know that they can't die here)

- The Duel of the Fates was very emotionally charged because you could see the two Jedi characters were actually uncertain how to approach this while Maul brought overwhelming arrogance and awesome skills. Then it got really personal when Qui Gon died and they upped the ante as you could see the anger on Obi Wans face, something we hadn't seen before. Also, it was really fast paced and obviously well practiced.

As was stated Duel of Fates is the most competent fight scene from the prequels. But it has the same overall faults. Drew on too long especially at the point that Qui Gon and Obi-Wan were separated and again the moment is robbed by just how much they draw out the fight and then kill off Qui Gon.

- Episode two didnt have the best saber duels, but Obi Wan vs Jango was AMAZING as it featured someone without a lightsaber going up against a Jedi and pretty much winning. It was totally badass. And both Ewan and Temura built up a great amount of tension in the scenes beforehand to add to it.

and most just saw it as a dude flying around shooting lasers at another guy in the rain while he tried to get into his ship. The fisticuff for a bit before Obi-Wan falls off the roof anf then runs back up to the roof. They then get into a drawn out space chase.

- Episode three had awesome fights. Dooku getting killed by Anakin was a great way to introduce how close to the darkside Anakin had gotten between Two and three. Kenobi v Grievous was something new and I felt like that fight was made when they both lost their sabers and got more personal about it. Grievous tossed Kenobi around like a rag doll. XD Sidious v Four Jedi was awesome since it showed how easily Palpatine could get rid of Jedi but then proceeded to give him an enemy he couldnt just power through with Mace who was 'the second baddest Jedi in the universe". And with Anakin intervening I thought that fight had a good amount of emotionally value as it was essentially the embodiment of Anakins confliction with the light and dark. And Anakin v Obi Wan WAS emtionally charged. We had literally just watched Anakin slaughter a bunch of people, almost kill his wife and had Obi Wan BEG not to be sent to kill his 'brother'. The fight itself was fast paced, had a pretty large scale and featured some of the best acting of Hayden Christenson of the entire franchise as you could almost FEEL the anger etc coming from him. His facial expressions were on point. XD And then the speech at the end. "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!" C'mon, I know for a fact that ALOT of star wars fans got chills at that point.

Dooku/Ani was pretty boring and suffers mainly from saber pop desensitization and the fact we know Anakin and Obi-Wan can't lose.

Kenobi/Grievous was a pale comparison compared to what Grievous was able to do in the previous animated series and was drawn out by a useless chase scene.

Sidious/Jedi was dumb in just how easy Sidious was able to apparently dispatch four Jedi Masters when they had all come there expecting to arrest him knowing he was a Sith. It wasn't a predicament of power, but stupidity.

Anakin/Obi-Wan was chalk full of hammy dialogue and was the most drawn out of any of the fight scenes in the series and is probably the culmination of all the faults of the fight scenes in the prequels. Too long and too showy moves/set pieces.

To end my little episode... XD I'll just say that people on this site have an overwhelming need to site the faults of the prequels. Allow me to offer a few comparisons.

- Unnecessary Comical characters who fight the bad guys, are almost beaten until the bad guys star ship is blown up and then they win: Gungans/Ewoks.
- Bad Acting: Mainly Hayden Christenson in Attack of the Clones whos JOB was to portray an annoying, whiny little baby and succeeded./ May I point out Mark Hammil in A New Hope? They say a good actor can make people hate a character.
- Emotional Scope was the 'most powerful and the darkest in Empire'. Revenge of the Sith topples that by far.

Honestly, I feel like people could pick a part the prequels for years and still be blind to the faults of the originals, which are equally deserving of hate in all honestly. I LOVE the entire saga, but if you're going to bash one aspect of it, at least observe the aspect you hold in high esteem.

Yes we cite the faults of the prequels because they are there and a perfect guide book of how to not make Star Wars stories in the future. The original are not without their fault, but they are a hell of a lot tidier. People do not disagree that the Ewoks are lame or that early Hammil was wanting in the acting department. But the Ewoks were in one film whereas Jar Jar persisted and Hammil came into his own as an actor. Saying Empire has less emotion than Revenge though is quite unfounded.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

There's nothing wrong with citing faults in the prequels. We're talking about the fighting style of the new films so it's only natural to compare it to the previous films. If you don't want to hear criticism of the prequels then you are free to leave this thread.

 

[TwoSidedHeart]

Ok lets do this whole pick apart someones reply and respond to it piece by piece thing that everyone here is in love with. XD But first, that anime GIF in your Sig Jhonny. What is it from?? And also, this has been building for a while. Imma just get this out then probs be absent from prequel rants for a few months. XD

As Brandon said the prequel fights were meant to be more spectacle fights so having some show set pieces or moves does make sense to a degree. PT just didn't deliver. The emotion of any of the fights were robbed by their length and just how quick people were to flash sabers. In the OT somebody having a lightsaber meant something. When it came out you knew you were about to see a pivotal scene. That's why the PT had to try and throw out new saber ideas or fighting styles every episode from then on because the laser swords lacked the same weight they had previously.

They dragged on and were to showy so that the held emotion ended up becoming fatiguing and as Brandon said the fight was just boring. Especially in terms of a prequel story where a fight involving Obi-Wan, Yoda, or Anakin any tension in the moment was lost when you know how it will play out (or at least know that they can't die here)

Oh come off it. XD Ben vs Vader for example was utterly boring and annoying. I mean seriously, we were supposed to suddenly believe Vader was a threat because Vader killed Ben? I didnt even LIKE Obi Wan until the PT. His death didn't effect me at all and when he came back I wondered what the point was. I mean, we ended up getting Yoda and GOD speaking of dragging on, what about the Dagobah scenes? XD And heres something to contrast knowing what was going to happen. At the end of the day, you knew the Rebels WERE going to win. From the scene where Luke has his little Vader vision on Dagobah, it becomes clear they are connected and the moment the iconic "I am your father" line is spoken, its obvious that Luke is going to try and redeem his father and the good guys will win. And then he does. The entirity of Return of the Jedi was predictable.

As was stated Duel of Fates is the most competent fight scene from the prequels. But it has the same overall faults. Drew on too long especially at the point that Qui Gon and Obi-Wan were separated and again the moment is robbed by just how much they draw out the fight and then kill off Qui Gon.

Its literally like... five minutes in length mate. How exactly is that drawing on when Luke v Vader in Empire is around 8?? XD And I was under the impression that Qui Gons death was supposed to be impactful? A character moment for Obi Wan and a sign of things to come for Anakin. The first in a long line of people he cares about dying.

and most just saw it as a dude flying around shooting lasers at another guy in the rain while he tried to get into his ship. The fisticuff for a bit before Obi-Wan falls off the roof anf then runs back up to the roof. They then get into a drawn out space chase.

Were these people high perhaps? O_O The fight was awesome, there was a lot of tension and then the space chase was COOL. Come on. T_T The big boomy things that Jango fires at Obi Wan? No?? You werent like OMG when that happened? o_O

Dooku/Ani was pretty boring and suffers mainly from saber pop desensitization and the fact we know Anakin and Obi-Wan can't lose.

Aside from the fact these movies were never about being scared if characters from the old trillogy died and rather the story of Darth Vaders rise to being Darth Vader or fall if you'd rather, it was still a good way to show the difference. Padawan Anakin gets his ass handed to him by Dooku and so does Obi Wan. Knight Anakin, egged on by the secret Dark Lord of the Sith, crushes Dooku then kills him. Its like.. the beginning of the end for Anakin Skywalker.

Kenobi/Grievous was a pale comparison compared to what Grievous was able to do in the previous animated series and was drawn out by a useless chase scene.

Yeah, but most people hadn't seen Animated Grievous. Also, the dude was a giant droid thing with four lightsabers. Thats kinda cool. And the 'useless' chase scene ends with a cool little smack around and then a witty one liner from Obi Wan. I thought it was kinda 'OT' really.

Sidious/Jedi was dumb in just how easy Sidious was able to apparently dispatch four Jedi Masters when they had all come there expecting to arrest him knowing he was a Sith. It wasn't a predicament of power, but stupidity.

Im sorry but does anyone remember Coleman Trebor? Jedi Master. Amazing Vision. Council member. Two, unchallenged blasts to the chest by Jango Fett? Originally, they had been going to arrest him due to him exceeding his term. Also, Mace beat him. XD

Anakin/Obi-Wan was chalk full of hammy dialogue and was the most drawn out of any of the fight scenes in the series and is probably the culmination of all the faults of the fight scenes in the prequels. Too long and too showy moves/set pieces.

It was pretty drawn out. But it was ultimately pretty COOL. And emotional. I mean, this is the two 'heroes' of the PT fighting it out against one another. They were brothers. Much emotion etc. How is it the culmination of fault when it is truly heartbreaking?

Yes we cite the faults of the prequels because they are there and a perfect guide book of how to not make Star Wars stories in the future. The original are not without their fault, but they are a hell of a lot tidier. People do not disagree that the Ewoks are lame or that early Hammil was wanting in the acting department. But the Ewoks were in one film whereas Jar Jar persisted and Hammil came into his own as an actor. Saying Empire has less emotion than Revenge though is quite unfounded.

Oh come off it. Jar Jar was in like two scenes of Episode Two, one of which he played a great part in the plot and Episode three he just looked sad during the funeral.

Empire- Vader Killing random officers. Vader chopping off Lukes Hand, Vader is Lukes Father, Han Being Tortured and encased in carbonate, "NOOOOOOOOOO" aaaand Taun Taun death. There may be more, just doing this off the top of my head with things that impacted me.
Revenge- Genocide of an Entire Religion by the soldiers they had trusted with their lives, Vader killing younglings, Vader slaughtering defenseless politicians, The obvious degradation of Anakins character following the revelation his forbidden wife is pregnant, Palpatine in general was pretty dark, Obi Wan fighting anakin after begging not to be forced to kill his brother with the fight itself taking place after anakin abuses his pregnant wife to the point she passes out which is soon followed by the onsceen dismemberment and burning to the crisp of Anakin skywalker, Obi Wan and Vaders final exchange, the death of a mother moments after her children are born, Anakins change to Vader and since I count deleted scenes Grivous randomly killing Shaak Ti. XD

Oh and in case anyone reads this far, about the actual sequel fighting styles and the Raid people. What if they bring in things from the EU like the Assasin Clones, which would now be stormtroopers from the Revenge of the Sith game? They were badass and would make sense on the big screen kicking serious ninja ass. XD

 

[Brandon Rhea]

We're really stretching the boundaries of the topic at this point. Comparisons to the past films are fine but this isn't going to be a debate about the prequels vs. the originals. Thank you.

 

[TwoSidedHeart]

I shall stop. :/ But seriously though. The whole clone assassin thing. Did anyone read that? XD They would look cool. StormTrooperised of course. XD I dunno, I feel like if they are dragging a new type of Saber into the new trillogy, they should drag a more competent and dangerous StormTrooper into the mix. Arent they supposed to be the elite??

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Interesting point about how you said they were elite: the most recent Rebels Recon, for "Path of the Jedi," actually talks about that.

Stormtroopers aren't always the elite. They are the main enlisted personnel of the Imperial Army. So some of them are elite, some of them are not. Some are going to be better than others. The ones that raided the Tantive IV were pretty elite. The Expanded Universe, before it was made non-canon, said that that was the 501st Legion. But not all groups of stormtroopers are going to be as good as them.

Which is essentially an in-universe explanation for why stormtroopers are a threat in stories where the heroes lose, and why they're not so threatening in stories where heroes win. Which isn't to say it should necessarily be that way. I think the franchise could do better at depicting stormtroopers, and I hope that the new trilogy does that. The brief glimpses of stormtroopers in the Episode VII trailer suggest that we might see that, plus the fact that Finn is probably a stormtrooper.

So if we saw some sort of more intense fighting style from stormtroopers, perhaps by exploring Finn's skills, that would be cool.

 

[AuroraRogersSkywalker]

and most just saw it as a dude flying around shooting lasers at another guy in the rain while he tried to get into his ship. The fisticuff for a bit before Obi-Wan falls off the roof anf then runs back up to the roof. They then get into a drawn out space chase.

But you can simplify just about any fight to that! Using the same logic, you can say that any fight in Star Wars is just a couple people waving laser swords at each other. ^.^

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The point is, though, that fights need to have an emotional hook to them, otherwise you're just having a fight for the sake of having a fight. Different people can have different opinions about the emotional resonance of prequel fights, of course. If you enjoyed them, more power to you. I - and Johnny, for that matter - have no emotional investment in the prequels because we think they're pretty terrible. So for the sequel trilogy, we'd like to see great fights that have some sort of meat to them, rather than just action for action's sake. If that happens then I will be satisfied with the fighting of the new films.

 

[Miz]

I want to see some Jedi versus dude with gun action. Every time we see some Force user get confronted by blaster fire they either immediately become masters of Soresu, or get absolutely destroyed unless they have plot armor.

I'd like to see some more Jedi stealth like Ben in episode 4.