Red Friday in the US

[Matt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jace Arcage @ Jan 18 2007, 09:35 PM) [snapback]144934[/snapback]</div>

Ok, that was extremely uncalled for. I bet it would be different if they were Canadian troops. Even if you don't care if Canadian troops died, I know somewhere in your heart, you don't want them to die; any of them. Yes, "only" 3,000 American soldiers died in Iraq, but that is 3,000 Fathers, Brothers, Teachers, Mothers, Students, etc. They aren't just a figure. They are real people like you and I. And most of the civilian deaths have all been caused from other civilians and/or sabotage. The American Troops are there to put an end to it. Really, all I have to say to you is: We are all human. It is horrible when any human dies, especially when another human is the cause of it.[/b]

Yes and as humans one of the main points we should remember is no mans life is more important then another mans. Now I feel so sorry for the peoples families who have been torn apart by there son's being killed in war etc etc but why is it any different for the iraq's who have been killed?

why are there lifes less important?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jace Arcage @ Jan 18 2007, 09:35 PM) [snapback]144934[/snapback]</div>

You know, no one can really help it now, Dace.[/b]

Something can always be done.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The people of the United States have the right to overthrow the government and make a new one as they see fit. That was laid out in the Declaration of Independence.

 

[Jace Arcage]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dace Hu @ Jan 18 2007, 05:02 PM) [snapback]144962[/snapback]</div>

Yes and as humans one of the main points we should remember is no mans life is more important then another mans. Now I feel so sorry for the peoples families who have been torn apart by there son's being killed in war etc etc but why is it any different for the iraq's who have been killed?

why are there lifes less important?[/b]

That was my whole point. That we are all humans, and we shouldn't be killing eachother in the first place, because the Iraqi citizens who've died are also Fathers, Brothers, Mothers, Teachers, Students, etc.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dace Hu @ Jan 18 2007, 05:02 PM) [snapback]144962[/snapback]</div>

Something can always be done.[/b]

And there are a lot of people trying, Dace.

 

[Matt]

Er..Why did you say no one can help it now then?

 

[Jace Arcage]

Because it's not working.

 

[Lillianne Crasse]

Let's look at this for a minute. How do you stop the President? With someone with the determination that Bush has, which many people liked in him and was what got us through 9/11/2001, you can only try to speak to him or take him out of office. Is there a better solution? I don't know. I don't have the political nor the militial expertise that others have. Plus, I don't know enough about Iraqi culture. What I do know is that this hatred between the different groups in Iraq has been building for years and years. Iraqis are killing Iraqis and our soldiers from several different countries. This hatred isn't something that is just going to disappear once our troops are out of there. The killing will continue as both sides fight for their right to exist and fight in retribution. Now, considering how late in the game it is, an impeachment hearing would take tons of time. Bush doesn't have too much longer in the office and more than likely the trial would last a whole hell of a lot longer than letting him just stay IN office. The Democrats know this and it's why Pelosi has said the Dems wouldn't pursue an impeachment. It would be a waste of time and tax payer dollars.

Here's the truth of the matter. No one has a solution to what has happened. No matter if we stay or if we leave or even WHEN we leave will it change things that much in Iraq, at least that's how I feel. Until both the Shiites and Sunnis (the Kurds are staying out of it knowing they're next once the other two are finished with them) are willing to work together for once and put aside years of hatred, nothing is going to improve in Iraq.

 

[Cailst]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Brandon Rhea @ Jan 18 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]144929[/snapback]</div>

The Sunnis hate us more than anyone else in Iraq so I don't really see where you're coming from here.[/b]

Unless the sectarian violence dies down, they will probably be slaughtered when we leave. So some of them probably want us to stay to make sure they survive.


Also, for those who say we should leave because there are real people that are dying, do you want there sacrifices to be for nothing?

 

[Matt]

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Jace]

Wow...Somehow I was wearing red today without even having logged in and seen this...Talk about Subliminal/Coincedence...

 

[Cailst]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dace Hu @ Jan 19 2007, 07:09 AM) [snapback]145053[/snapback]</div>

What the hell are you talking about?[/b]

If we leave now, all that our troops fought and died for will be in vain. Its sad that they died but dying for no reason is even sadder and we should stay until the Iraqis dont need us anymore.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Noncommunist @ Jan 20 2007, 12:38 PM) [snapback]145160[/snapback]</div>

and we should stay until the Iraqis dont need us anymore.[/b]

Even if they don't want us? Freedom cannot be bestowed; it must be achieved.

 

[Cailst]

but many do want us, we cannot just leave to satisfy an angry minority. Also, though we cannot create a democracy, we can protect one until it is strong enough to survive on its own.

 

[Matt]

Minority? I would say it is not a minority anymore.

Any iraqi can see that since we got there, the country has become more dangerous.

And what right do we have to make the iraqi's have a democracy, democracy is overated

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The Kurds like us, but they only make up something like 20% percent of the Iraqi population. Shia and Sunni factions are killing American, British, Australian and Iraqi soldiers (along with many other countries) on a daily basis and hundreds of Iraqi civilians are murdered each week. Under the regime of Saddam Hussein, the people were oppressed but the violence was much lowered. Hussein killed mostly Kurds, but even then there weren't battles raging in the streets that pitted Iraqis against Iraqis. At this point, a Unity Government is out of the question. It's time for three Iraqs: Kurdistan, Shiastan and Sunnistan, or whatever they want to call themselves.

 

[Lillianne Crasse]

and this is exactly what some don't want including Iran.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Right, Iran wants war between the Shias and the Sunnis.

 

[Darca]

I know I am just 17 and really don't understand our world much but I think we need to stay in Iraq. The invasion perhaps was wrong however we must think about the future of Iraq. If we stay and make sure the Iraq's government grow into a strong force our gain will be greater then our loss (I am not just speaking about U.S.A. but the world). Perhaps in time we can turn Iraq into another Germany or Japan or South Korea with rights, actually police force, a legal system, higher standard of living, and a good economy which will help the world in multiple ways (i.e. donating to the U.N., help to battle terrrorism, helping to make peace in the middle east, and make oil cheaper for everyone).

 

[Ser Yorick]

Why must everything be RED?

 

[Matt]

Cause red = pumpkin pie

 

[Ser Yorick]

Then this debate is over.

Everyone shall wear RED, every day possible.