Question about Sith Advancement

[Fang.]

Jumping in super late here, I personally dont like that there is a pvp requirement to get a promotion, it makes sense if the person is new to the site and has never done pvp before or even never played a force user before, but for someone such as myself who has done pvp a fair bit with my other character, I dont think I need it and I dont want to go out of my way to find it because it feels forced for me, and when I lose interest in a thread, it becomes very hard to write for and becomes more of a chore to write, and in my opinion RPing is supposed to be about having fun, and I dont want to have to stop having fun just so my character can progress, it just dosent make sense to me.

There are probably some things in there that have already been addressed, but Im kind of writing this inbetween classes and didnt have time to read everything that has been posted so far and just wanted to throw in my 2 cents

 

[Logan]

I'm more inclined to side with Fang and people on that side of the fence than anything. Clearly the Sith leadership needs to reevaluate the way they address promotions, because as it sits you're forcing your members to do something no one really wants to be forced to do. And I think that it has a direct correlation to the amount of activity the faction actually has. For being the primary force in the galaxy, you're pretty trumped by the Cartel and even the Rangers.

You should base your promotions on individual characters achievements, not arbitrarily decided prerequisites.

 

[Dmitri]

The promotion guidelines are still under review. If changes are made, they may focus more on if the person is ready or not like the Jedi do rather than focusing primarily on prerequisites. I will say this though. Likely at least one duel requirement (as in at least one duel, regardless of outcome) will remain, for exposure and experience with PvP. There is always some aspect of promotion people don't like. Some dislike training threads and classes, others dislike duels. There may be more flexibility in the future as we finalize and continue to review the promotion requirements, but there will always be something someone doesn't like.

 

[Vexillar]

I like it all personally. I think its very well set up as is, and I'd rather keep it at 3 or at least 2 so as to expose people to different players style of PvP. Otherwise you may be caught with your pants down and tada! Now you're dead.

Also. For those saying "Well I dont have to be involved in fighting" no kill no capture threads dont mean no fighting. And even when in a fight you're not gonna magically spawn a way out usually. Which leaves you with play defense until you can book it and hope you run faster, or fight.

 

[Marf]

I'm more inclined to side with Fang and people on that side of the fence than anything. Clearly the Sith leadership needs to reevaluate the way they address promotions, because as it sits you're forcing your members to do something no one really wants to be forced to do. And I think that it has a direct correlation to the amount of activity the faction actually has. For being the primary force in the galaxy, you're pretty trumped by the Cartel and even the Rangers.

You should base your promotions on individual characters achievements, not arbitrarily decided prerequisites.

You pretty much just summed my exact views on the topic. All I've wanted to do since joining the site has been RP my own stories, training and faction related stuff has been secondary. I hardly finish threads because I can't force myself to RP threads that I'm disinterested in, and I've barely been able to focus on my own projects because all I've done has been training. Hardly anyone is getting promoted at this rate, three Sith throughout the whole year have been promoted to Master and there are currently almost no active Sith above Crusader. I'm worried I won't get to RP a Master rank character before the site reboot, despite how long I've been in this faction.

I believe characters should be promoted based their development and the writing quality of their posts, not if they're completed or what kind of threads they are. A thread can be 6 pages long and still be dreadful.

I like it all personally. I think its very well set up as is.

Because you were one of about six(?) Sith who have been promoted to Crusader since the time-skip.

 

[Taz]

Some PvP makes sense, It would be stupid to say you can be in a faction such as the this and think you will not be involved in a conflict. The Sith Empire is at war with every other major faction on the site, thus more the half of the galaxy wants to see you dead or injured because of your faction standing alone. That being said, I have yet to meet a person on here who won't OOC conversation out a fight so that all parties are on the same page. I don't know if there should be a required number of fights or even the requirement of winning but a Sith can not be a Sith without at least having been in a fight.

I will agree with Marka and Relent that the requirements need to be revisited across the board. It is apparent that this factions is held back by the fear of OP players and Character profiles. I myself have been on the fence to about keeping Thirteen in the Sith because of these hard rules and requirements that limited play and fleshing. I have to learn everything is slow moving threats of classes and training to expand in mind numbing detail that I have a good idea of how to move a cup with the force. I can't train under a Crusader or Master as an apprentice because they are to busy trying to meet there own training requirements like being forced to teach a class when they could be assisting in destroying an enemy of the Empire.

The roster is a joke of inactive characters, I stopped counting inactive acolytes after 40, Crusaders well sense Nox is archived I think that leaves 3 maybe 4 active including the ones that got promoted sense I started on the site. Masters/Lords I don't even pay attention cause I've yet to see one other then the recent invasion of Yag'dhul.

I'm ranting a little, my apologizes but I'll end with this, Weiss I hope you find some fresh blood to help you bring some life back into this faction and make it more fun and less restrictions/requirements.

 

[Mistress]

I'm a writer. I'm not really a Sith Crusader. I think once a writer shows they understand what is expected of them as a writer of a Sith, then maybe they should be promoted.

 

[Dmitri]

I'm a writer. I'm not really a Sith Crusader. I think once a writer shows they understand what is expected of them as a writer of a Sith, then maybe they should be promoted.

Actually, this is one of the things I plan to focus on in the revised promotions. As I've stated before, the qualifications for advancement are under review. The recent change was a temporary fix while the finalized version is finished. I've been busy with work and getting sidetracked with other threads I'm working on that I haven't gotten around to completing it. I hope to have it complete this weekend.

 

[Darkwasp]

Actually, this is one of the things I plan to focus on in the revised promotions. As I've stated before, the qualifications for advancement are under review. The recent change was a temporary fix while the finalized version is finished. I've been busy with work and getting sidetracked with other threads I'm working on that I haven't gotten around to completing it. I hope to have it complete this weekend.

No particular rush. I didn't create this post for you to feel attacked. I felt that it was something that needed to be discussed by the membership. Different people are obviously going to have different points of view, and Itthink everyone should be heard when a potentially controversial rule exists.

 

[Slamdingo]

I have my opinions. I am of course on the side of the fence that promotes changing them.

In light of that, I think I can understand these current standards as a placeholder but if others wish to dispute me then I have no argument as these were standards put in place long before my time.

That being said, I would say that at some point in the future once Weiss isn't being bombarded by real-life issues and has had a bit more time to settle into the mantle of Faction Leader that we can have a more organized and structured discussion on what the standards should or should not be. One that I honestly look forward to.

 

[Logan]

I think the most important thing that's been brought up in the thread so far is how the current situation of the Sith is set up, it really is causing the entire faction to become extremely stymied and almost unattractive. The Sith are supposed to be an alluring and tantalizing, but the way the guidelines of joining and maintaining your rank in the faction make it seem like nothing more than a bunch of trivial pursuits that may end in a promotion if you can get a bunch of other people to participate with you. I understand this is an RP forum and that means collaborative writing - but individual, selfish achievement is supposed to be a paramount ideal to the Sith. Currently I think the way it's set up punishes anyone who would want to forge their own path in the faction.

Something to think about at least - I look forward to seeing the revisions when they're finished.

 

[Taz]

Well Put Relent

 

[Mistress]

Actually, this is one of the things I plan to focus on in the revised promotions. As I've stated before, the qualifications for advancement are under review. The recent change was a temporary fix while the finalized version is finished. I've been busy with work and getting sidetracked with other threads I'm working on that I haven't gotten around to completing it. I hope to have it complete this weekend.

Please don't take our continued conversation in this thread as any pressure on you. We are not intending to goad you! I promise!

 

[Sreeya]

Tbh the fighting thing imo applies most strongly to Darths. If I send a Darth into battle, they better be ready to go into battle. No exceptions for that. As far as Masters and other levels go, I think you should be CAPABLE of defending yourself. Does that mean you have to be all gun ho and crazy about pvp? No. Raif is about as anti-pvp as a person can get, and he still managed to snag a Darth spot. Why? Because I know that if shit hits the fan, he can be relied upon. He won't whine about being in a battle and he'll roll up his sleeves and jump in. That's what I'd look for (or did, when I had time to be active), personally. If a person is obsessed with pvp, that doesn't automatically make them a good candidate for Sith. You just need to be reliable if battles come up.

While those are extremes, I'm using them to get my point across. Leadership can just make PVP count more than normal missions to promote people trying it more.

Example: Acolyte Deathkiller needs 15 points to advance to Marauder.
Social Threads = 0 points (Character development is awesome, but to the Sith/Imperium it doesn't mean much)
Story Threads = 1 point (Your character is working toward a goal and probably practicing a power or two)
Training Threads = 1 point (Your character is practicing a skill)
Mission Threads = 2 points (probably practicing a skill AND helping the Imperium)
PVP/Duel = 3 Points [or +1 if in another type of thread]
Event Threads = 4 Points (practicing skills and greatly helping the Sith/Imperium)

That is a very solid idea in my opinion.

 

[Dmitri]

I think the most important thing that's been brought up in the thread so far is how the current situation of the Sith is set up, it really is causing the entire faction to become extremely stymied and almost unattractive. The Sith are supposed to be an alluring and tantalizing, but the way the guidelines of joining and maintaining your rank in the faction make it seem like nothing more than a bunch of trivial pursuits that may end in a promotion if you can get a bunch of other people to participate with you. I understand this is an RP forum and that means collaborative writing - but individual, selfish achievement is supposed to be a paramount ideal to the Sith. Currently I think the way it's set up punishes anyone who would want to forge their own path in the faction.

Something to think about at least - I look forward to seeing the revisions when they're finished.

Indeed. Those have been problems the guidelines have had. However, I will say this. One of the problems was the way missions were set up. That they needed to be cookie-cutter of how the Directory supplied. I don't think that's the way to go. People all the time create their own threads, which can have as much impact to the faction or the character's personal storyline, sometimes moreso than the Directory's list. The new guidelines will allow for personally-conceived threads to be able to be credited in an application, rather than be the real juice behind a character with everything else being fluff done solely for the sake of advancement. The guidelines will also focus not just on faction-based achievements, but will allow for personal development in personal storylines to be able to help in an application.

Tbh the fighting thing imo applies most strongly to Darths. If I send a Darth into battle, they better be ready to go into battle. No exceptions for that. As far as Masters and other levels go, I think you should be CAPABLE of defending yourself. Does that mean you have to be all gun ho and crazy about pvp? No. Raif is about as anti-pvp as a person can get, and he still managed to snag a Darth spot. Why? Because I know that if shit hits the fan, he can be relied upon. He won't whine about being in a battle and he'll roll up his sleeves and jump in. That's what I'd look for (or did, when I had time to be active), personally. If a person is obsessed with pvp, that doesn't automatically make them a good candidate for Sith. You just need to be reliable if battles come up.

I am aligned with this. I don't think combat is the primary focus for acolytes. It isn't for all members. Still, a war is happening the galaxy. While PvP mastery won't be necessary for promotion, I still believe exposure to it is still beneficial to members, especially newer members to the site. People can try to avoid fights as much as possible, but sometimes fights creep on people. Take Fusion for example. He tried to avoid combat whenever possible. That led him unprepared when fights suddenly broke out in threads he was in, and was unable to have his characters fight back properly. I'm even an example of why combat exposure is very useful. Foolish, noob me decided I would sign up for a battle last timeline called the Battle of Noob Hill. I had no prior PvP experience before, and I was tremendously unprepared for the fight. I was not able to do it decently, or was I use to fighting against someone or with someone. The Battle of Noob Hill ended badly, with my character accidentally killing his ally while trying to attack our Jedi opponent in a 2 vs. 1 fight. The duel requirement for promotion is there (more so now than in the past) to expose members to PvP, rather than priming them to be gods of war. And like Sreeya said, just because you're super special awesome at PvP doesn't mean you'll get promoted, just as much as being really-really-really-Weiss-at-Noob-Hill bad won't necessarily bar someone from being promoted to crusader.

While those are extremes, I'm using them to get my point across. Leadership can just make PVP count more than normal missions to promote people trying it more.

Example: Acolyte Deathkiller needs 15 points to advance to Marauder.
Social Threads = 0 points (Character development is awesome, but to the Sith/Imperium it doesn't mean much)
Story Threads = 1 point (Your character is working toward a goal and probably practicing a power or two)
Training Threads = 1 point (Your character is practicing a skill)
Mission Threads = 2 points (probably practicing a skill AND helping the Imperium)
PVP/Duel = 3 Points [or +1 if in another type of thread]
Event Threads = 4 Points (practicing skills and greatly helping the Sith/Imperium)

That system could be interesting, but I also think it relies still on the sort of quantity-over-quality problem that's faced the guidelines in the past. Past guidelines have taken quantity of types of threads over the quality of the threads for the most part. However, I would be fine with certain threads having a larger role in the promotion process.


EDIT:

Another issue that's cropped up is the recruitment as well. Stats were examined and enforced for applications. A max of a single 7. The idea was that members could improve over time and allows for evening of skills. However, it didn't go as planned. It ends up feeling more like a level-based RPG game than anything. As such, stats will not be examined by their numbers, per se, but rather they may get an independent examination to make sure they aren't overpowered (such as all stats being 10/10 and 'all balanced').

Also, to address something: armor does not bar members from recruitment. A belief has cropped up that Sith cannot have armor, or at least high-tech or good armor. That is incorrect.