Lightsabers in DOTR

[Spud]

Especially in a PvP scenario, where all the flashy and fancy moves tend to get people killed when they come up against someone that just uses basic things to beat them.

I've been strongly considering having my Sith be a practitioner of Shii-Cho. Lightsaber forms are all just fluff and flavour, but it's fun to think about, anyway. Part of the reason I'm doing it is because I think it's an interesting style that never gets used, and the other part is that she's so lacking in confidence in terms of lightsaber combat that even if she wanted to branch out she probably couldn't. She'll probably stick to it because it has simple principles that she can get her head around easily, and then if she ever gains enough confidence to feel like she could branch out she'll probably like it too much to stop using it.

Indeed, flashy moves are just, well, flash. Sort of like how animals, and people to a similar extent, puff up/dance around/beat their chest/growl/etc... The saber practitioner that likes to use showy moves is one that likes to intimidate via appearance, they just need to be wary of the warriors that move with precision and efficiency.

Also, go for it! Shii-Cho is highly underrated IMO, in addition to being the best form to start learning about the LS with the fundamentals of fluidity and adaptation are key to pretty much every aspect of, well, life.

Edit: I've also got nothing against people that do like flash. Every creature does it for one reason, it works, just not on everything.

 

[TheBlackace]

those that prefer to mix saber and force combat or saber and blaster combat.

This is what my sith has got going, he's got his lightsaber (which he uses form IV) and a blaster that he uses to take pot shots in the middle of combat, to keep his opponent on his toes. Can also see it coming in handy when stuck in a saber lock, just pull out the blaster and put a few shots into their belly.

 

[StormWolf]

Star Wars lightsaber combat has always had flair and fanfare to it. Even in the fight with Alec Guinness, he does a little pirouette and blatantly turns his back on Vader. The more the series went on, the more choreo-heavy it got, until we got the "Obi-Ani", or "Senseless Spin". TFA went more back to basics, but the flair is still there because actual fight-for-your-life combat isn't graceful or pretty, and therefore quite boring. There is some Legends bull about "spinning the saber builds momentum for a proper swing because the blade has no weight blah blah" No, it's because the audience likes the "vwum-vwum" noise a saber makes.
So for nothing else than the sake of keeping the "in universe" feel, rub some funk on it, but be tasteful. Do a figure eight, a flourish, or a spinny-whoosh-whoosh guard change... but just not when you are so close to your enemy they can bite your tongue out of your head. Don't go full Crouching Tiger... though a gliding lightsaber fight would be kinda nifty...

 

[Halcyon]

[...]until we got the "Obi-Ani", or "Senseless Spin".

One could argue that those flourishes were part of an elaborate (and looooooong) series of feints. But that's way too far-fetched when we all know that they were basically dancing at that point.

Speaking of which... you'd wanna jump to 4:36 for the part in question or 1:51 for the whole dance-fight.

Alternatively you can watch the whole thing and also check the other videos on their channel. They've made a whole bunch of them.

 

[StormWolf]

Don't forget the painfully awkward mutual Force push that just looked like they really wanted some bad touch.

 

[Halcyon]

@StormWolf You made me look for it... Now I'm ashamed of myself.

Spoiler: Rated R

 

[StormWolf]

Roses are red
Violets are blue
You were my brother Anakin! I loved you!

 

[Halcyon]

I recently had an idea regarding Force combat and wanted to run it by you guys first. It doesn't pertain to LS combat per se, but I didn't feel like making another thread just for this.

Basically, I thought of having my guy use telekinesis to make a series of daggers - or similar cutting weapons - hover around him as if in orbit; one, two such orbits at most; ten daggers per orbit, tops. He can pick them up and fight with them, throw them, simply use them as cutting shield, etc.
Although it has its several applications, I'll be honest, I thought of it mostly for cool points. Also, I'm going with daggers both because of the PC's background - he's a gray Jedi - and because I don't want it to be too OP by using LS instead.

For reference, google Izayoi Sakuya, it's a character from a game or w/e, nothing to do with SW, but it's the closest thing I could find.

A bit of additional info: Telekinesis is behind the common LS throw ability, in case someone wasn't aware of it; and there is indeed a technique called saber barrier, that's actually similar to what I'm suggesting - only far deadlier.

 

[TheBlackace]

It sounds cool! I might even experiment with this saber barrier idea.
And I don't see anything wrong with this, though with the new force rules I think it will take a great amount of concentration to pull something off like this, and that might be difficult to do in a life or death situation. But yeah as long as you RP it appropriatly it looks okay, just don't be trying to 'Noctis' all the blaster bolts coming at you from all directions at all times.

An example of Noctis-ing it up (around the 00:28 mark)

 

[Sapphire Storm]

With the new Force rules I don't see it being the most effective thing in PvP, if it's intended to be used there. It would take a lot of concentration and someone could disrupt it just by firing a blaster at you and forcing you to react. In terms of character aesthetic and theme and whatnot I think it'd be really cool.

 

[Halcyon]

@TheBlackace Nah, nothing over the top like that. And bullets are faster than blaster bolts, so that guy is really going at it!

One thing you need to know about me, my characters won't save the galaxy or kill all their enemies in a matter of seconds with a succession of awesome jaw-dropping acrobatics! XD
He'll likely use it to intimidate people while he runs for his life - at least at the beginning.

@Sapphire Storm Thanks! Like I said, cool is what I'm going for. If he's dying anyway, why not do it with style?! XP

 

[Sapphire Storm]

@TheBlackace And bullets are faster than blaster bolts, so that guy is really going at it!

Not in the Star Wars universe they're not. For whatever reason slugthrowers, as they're called, are inferior to blasters in the Star Wars universe, and I think this timeline we're running with the idea that they travel at the same speed. Star Wars physics is weird

 

[Halcyon]

Thanks for clearing that up, and I do agree that it does make sense to treat them both as having the same speed, for simplicity and congruity. I don't know if this was your aim, though - Get it? "Aim"? I crack myself up, sometimes.

Anyway, without getting into much detail, just the fact that can you see a blaster bolt travelling through the air whereas you can't see a slug, is enough to infer that one is travelling slower than the other. I'm not assuming that you somehow see a bolt's trail, but the actual bolt. But also, I'm not factoring in the slugthrower higher rate of fire. But all in all, I totally agree with the staff's decision.

A question though: Blaster bolts can be deflected by a LS, being energy and all. But what about slugs? It would made sense for them to continue to travel even after being burned, it's metal and scorching metal still packs a punch. But then, there goes congruity slugged through the window - "slugged", haha!

 

[Sapphire Storm]

I know this was talked about in one of the timeline announcements, but I can't remember which one exactly... Maybe the tech announcement? I don't recall. If you can find that post in the Timelines Announcements forum it will answer basically every question about slugthrowers vs blasters you may have.

edit: Yeah, it was the tech announcement. You can read about it here

 

[Halcyon]

Ah, thanks!
I must admit I haven't read the technology threads, I tend to procrastinate and leave those technical bits for last.
With DoTR just around the corner, I need to do it and finish my PC's profile. Again, thank you.

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

One question I would like to ask is this: what is the practicality of a lightsaber pike? As in a spear like apparatus with a lightsaber blade where the spearhead would be. I know they exist in EU, but I have always wondered if they were a very practical weapon realistically against the simpler light saber sword. am asking because I am trying to figure out my second character, and he is more of a tribal type and would use a modified spear/shaman staff. The areas that I would like to know about are 1) one on one against a sword 2) against multiple opponents 3) against blaster fire.

 

[Warmonger]

One question I would like to ask is this: what is the practicality of a lightsaber pike? As in a spear like apparatus with a lightsaber blade where the spearhead would be. I know they exist in EU, but I have always wondered if they were a very practical weapon realistically against the simpler light saber sword. am asking because I am trying to figure out my second character, and he is more of a tribal type and would use a modified spear/shaman staff. The areas that I would like to know about are 1) one on one against a sword 2) against multiple opponents 3) against blaster fire.

I can't answer all of your questions, but I imagine deflecting blaster fire would be harder than with a lightsaber. I imagine that trying to move the pike in as many positions as quickly as one could with a lightsaber would be physically exhausting and require a level of dexterity not available to most creatures.

 

[Korvo]

One question I would like to ask is this: what is the practicality of a lightsaber pike? As in a spear like apparatus with a lightsaber blade where the spearhead would be. I know they exist in EU, but I have always wondered if they were a very practical weapon realistically against the simpler light saber sword. am asking because I am trying to figure out my second character, and he is more of a tribal type and would use a modified spear/shaman staff. The areas that I would like to know about are 1) one on one against a sword 2) against multiple opponents 3) against blaster fire.

Most lightsabers are general-purpose tools/weapons. Good for defense, good for offense, good for melee combat, good against ranged combat, etc. When you get to the variants, you usually get more limited, which means you have to be creative or innovative to make up.

A lightsaber pike can be quite practical. It's been used often in the Legends continuity because it is like a spear; the application is easy to translate.

Against a lightsaber wielding opponent, they could potentially be very effective. They have greater range, which is typically a plus in melee combat. However, they would also suffer from the same setbacks as the double-bladed lightsaber; damage to the hilt. Unless you made your hilt out of phirk or something, you'd have to be careful and observant of how you fought.

It's a little more vague when it comes to "multiple opponents", but if you're talking straight meat-for-the-grinder together with the lightsaber's capacity for a killing blow from just a glance, a lightsaber pike could give more "kills per swing" than a lightsaber ever could. But there's too many factors to consider in that regard, mostly on who those "multiple opponents" are.

Now against blasterfire, I'd imagine it be noticeably less effective. Reason being is that the lightsaber's strength is in the blade, not the length of the hilt, when it comes to saber-to-blaster defense. Having a smaller hilt would be better for defensive since your movements would be less encumbered. However, this is a science fantasy setting. You don't necessarily have to incorporate those natural difficulties since Jedi and Sith are superhuman anyways.

Tl;dr, just do what you want. Make up for any downs with creativity.

 

[Halcyon]

Here comes another long one...

@+SpaceJesus+ A lightsaber pike, for all intents and purpose, acts as a pole weapon with the added threat of a lightsaber edge.

Although this is a fantasy setting, it is useful in certain situation to compare something to its real world counterpart; otherwise, what would be the point of even asking questions? But all in all and as already mentioned, all actual pros and cons of a weapon or piece of tech are worthless when compared to writing skill and creativity (also, read my sig XP). Anyways, knowing the actual usefulness of a weapon IRL can help people to better write its usage on RPs, so here goes a few considerations:

In the general sense, pole arms are "strong" vs swords in a duel, thanks to their better reach, range, and leverage - yes, those three are very distinct traits, I can clarify them if someone asks. Unlike popular belief however, they are not useless in close range, since you can easily retract the pole of the weapon and position your hands closer to the pointed head. This however, reduces it's angular momentum - one of the purposes of using a pole arm.

As with every single weapon, everything is very situational, so while a pole arm is capable of being effective both in close as well as long range - obviously excelling at the latter - it can very well be handicapped by various conditions, such as fighting in close quarters, closed spaces, corridors, etc. Its effectiveness, as always, also depends on the other weapon. This makes any and all pole arms impractical for fighting several opponents at the same time. The weapon's shaft would keep bouncing and hitting the other foes, preventing it from having freedom of motion; also, more opponents means more hands, and someone else gripping the shaft of the weapon it the worst thing that can happen.

In sum, generally - and let me stress it - generally, a pole arm has an obvious advantage over other melee sidearms.

The tides can, however, turn very quickly against the pole arm user. IRL, the weapon's shaft is often reinforced with langets. Still, it is very easy for most swords - for example - to completely smash the pole after 2-3 hits. That, and attempting to grab the pole and snatch it, will be the main objectives of your opponents. Applied to Star Wars, you could have the shaft be made of phrik, but IMO that would make the lightsaber pike totally unbalanced against normal lightsabers. Even usual lightsabers should not be entirely made of phrik (I think that's even stated in the rules somewhere, no?), let alone a saber pike/spear.

Furthermore, historically, one of the reasons for the widespread use of pole arms had nothing to do with their effectiveness against swords but with their relative low cost to produce. Wood was cheap, metal wasn't. A pole arm requires little metal and little amount of a blacksmith's work in comparison to a sword, for example. In that sense, making a lightsaber pike whose shaft is made entirely of phrik makes even less sense - unless your PC is the final boss of a video game.

Finally, regarding blaster bolt deflection. It can actually work very well - for a Jedi obviously, but all bolt deflection becomes near-impossible for a non Force user anyway. Any pole arm is immediately associated with a piercing weapon; although that's mostly - but not entirely - true, you can perform a piercing motion in more directions and angles than one, covering mostly a sort of wide cone spreading from your front. For that reason, I only really see it working from that one direction, and it being rather weak - once compared to a standard lightsaber - at bolt deflection from various sides.

One other thing, cleaving through several foes is entirely dependent on the plasma beam - on the sense of a lightsaber-like weapon - it has nothing to do with the shaft. Seeing that the shaft actually makes the weapon impractical for fighting many opponents at once, and that it would have a shorter "lightsaber blade", your average lightsaber is much more useful for the purpose of providing more "kills per swing".

In layman's terms, the lightsaber pike/spear you're thinking of, is suited for dueling against other LS in single combat, but weak against several foes - even those armed with lightsabers - and blaster bolts in general - while not being entirely useless against them. Hope it helped.