HUTT CARTEL DEBATE 2015

[The Kyzer]

Since Brandon kindly asked me to move this discussion to another thread, I've done precisely that.

SO HERE WE GO!

Thanks for tuning in, gentlebeings!

It's time for some Q&A with our candidates! Let's see just how bad of shape this faction is going to be in after this vote.

@Nor'baal @Phoenix

​

What is your plan for the Cartel?

What is your plan for the site story and your faction's impact on it?

Why should people vote for you over your opponent?

 

[Prudence]

I think the most important question is: what are you going to do with the Cartel since KES isn't alive to kick around anymore?

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I also have a question that I know is relevant to at least one of the people in the running.

Lots of people come into the FL spot with big ideas and grand plans to shake up the faction and do things a new way. If you have plans like that, are you prepared to significantly compromise them/scale back on them because there's less than 2 months left in the timeline? Are you prepared to say that there's not enough time to reinvent the wheel, and you have to be the FL of the faction that exists now rather than the faction you wish existed?

 

[Ral]

What is your plan for the Cartel?

To win stylishly and establish a crime empire the Galaxy has never seen before or will ever see again.

What is your plan for the site story and your faction's impact on it?

So, my plan is to keep fighting the Empire with awesomeness and style until we win. With the Cartel being the second largest faction we'll naturally be in an important position to control which way the war goes. I think establishing a galaxy-spanning crime empire is impact enough, don't you?

Why should people vote for you over your opponent?

Because Norbs is a slug, and Phoenix is a bird, do you really think those are the kind of leaders you want?

and now for an optional question:

How awesome am I? I know I'm pretty great, but just how great am I?

You're pretty awesome... but you're not Christlike... so take that as you will. Also it's good to see senator granger back in things...

Oh wait, I'm not part of the Cartel am I? Well then... nevermind... except that last part, that last part is still true.

On a serious note, best of luck to both nominees, I'll be interested to see where this goes. I wanna see some good, honest, clean, debating. EDIT: Preferably with a minimal amount of mudslinging.
*Returns to creeping from the sidelines with his Mandbros*

 

[TAC]

I also have a question that I know is relevant to at least one of the people in the running.

Lots of people come into the FL spot with big ideas and grand plans to shake up the faction and do things a new way. If you have plans like that, are you prepared to significantly compromise them/scale back on them because there's less than 2 months left in the timeline? Are you prepared to say that there's not enough time to reinvent the wheel, and you have to be the FL of the faction that exists now rather than the faction you wish existed?

Or you could go my route and be FL for like ten seconds and then peace.

 

[Eccles]

Are you up for, and have enough free time, to be FL? It's just a title and writinf a newsletter. Annoying people like me will keep sending you PMs and tag you in profile updates and OOC posts to get what wr want and we'll bitch about it if we don't get it.

Do you think it will hinder your ability to enjoy the RP?

 

[Dmitri]

To clarify (as someone asked me if only the "self-nominated moderator", lol, could moderate the discussion/ask questions), anyone can ask questions for the nominees.

 

[Phoenix]

What is your plan for the Cartel?

I plan to keep the Cartel involved in the war effort against the Imperium. I'm NOT talking about folding it into the Rebellion by any means, but using the war to gain an advantage for money and more importantly…. power (for all you HoC fans). When no one is ruling or governing, that's the perfect chance to swoop in and set up shop and facilitate those that you want to be in power. Taking over a war-torn planet and turning the government into a puppet is a great opportunity for the Cartel since corrupt politicians are some of the most useful investments criminals can make. I also hope to put some time into solidifying Cartel power on the planets it already has.

So what does this all mean for the members? The members should be able to act mostly autonomously without being bogged down by bureaucracy or slow movement. I know that’s easy to say, but I’m not a fan of putting up barriers to the membership. If you want to do something try to get it doneee and i will do everything in my power to get it done. On my end I’ll be putting out more missions and events in order to keep everyone having fun (since that’s what RPing is really all about). I’m also eager to hear what the active members are interested in seeing moving forward as the members are really the ones that should be driving this. Wanna fight the Jedi as well as the Sith? That may be an option. Will our own grab for power cause conflict with the Rebels? Who knows. Only time (which I do understand we don’t have much of) will tell.

What is your plan for the site story and your faction's impact on it?

I think I hit on a lot of this above. The Cartel has already gone too far against the Empire to switch sides and frankly if they overthrow the Imperium, they have a much better chance of grabbing power from the Rebels before they have solidified their own government. Will they rule the galaxy? Likely not, but it's an opportunity for a power grab. Which is really what this is all about. We aren’t do-gooders. We’re pirates, mercenaries, con men, and scum.

Why should people vote for you over your opponent?

I’m not going to bash Norby, that’s stupid and I cannot abide those whose campaign is based on tearing down someone else rather than presenting what they, personally, have to offer. So I guess that means this is where i talk about how awesome I am (or maybe that’s the next question)? *shrug* In honesty, I wasn’t entirely expecting this. When I saw my name listed on the nomination, I was a bit surprised. It’s not that it wasn’t something that I’d ever thought of before, but I wasn’t quite anticipating it right now. I’m honored that the others in the Cartel think that I could be an effective leader of the Cartel, and I’ll work not to let people down. As someone that’s been active in the Cartel since day 3 of signing up for the site I know first hand what it’s like to want to be active in the faction, and I’ll do everything that i can to make sure that others can do that. I want everyone to have fun, and I think i can make that happen.

How awesome am I? I know I'm pretty great, but just how great am I?

I’m mean I think @Ral Aran hit the nail on the head. I’m a flaming bird! Why wouldn’t you vote for me? Ok seriously though. I think that as a member on the site, I’ve done everything in my power to be amiable to everyone that I’ve talked to and written with. To the best of my knowledge I don’t have any hostility with anyone on the site, despite having fought in numerous battles that can (and have historically) easily explode into much more than an IC fight. That’s just how I prefer to be. There’s no reason that everyone on this site can’t all get along to write one really awesome story.

I think the most important question is: what are you going to do with the Cartel since KES isn't alive to kick around anymore?

We're going to revive you just so we can kill you again.

I also have a question that I know is relevant to at least one of the people in the running.

Lots of people come into the FL spot with big ideas and grand plans to shake up the faction and do things a new way. If you have plans like that, are you prepared to significantly compromise them/scale back on them because there's less than 2 months left in the timeline? Are you prepared to say that there's not enough time to reinvent the wheel, and you have to be the FL of the faction that exists now rather than the faction you wish existed?

This is a question that I think is actually really important. I think that people get the idea that I'm not serious about this because I don't have a grand plan laid out already, that’s really not the case. I know that it’s important to see where things are heading before promising a bunch of changes only to find out once i take "office" that I can't keep any of those. So please don't mistake my adaptability for complacency.

Are you up for, and have enough free time, to be FL? It's just a title and writinf a newsletter. Annoying people like me will keep sending you PMs and tag you in profile updates and OOC posts to get what wr want and we'll bitch about it if we don't get it.

Do you think it will hinder your ability to enjoy the RP?

Honestly, someone recently told me i was one of the most active members on the site. Is that true? I don’t know but apparently I at least give that impression. The truth is I spend plenty of time waiting around for something to happen. I’m usually pretty quick to reply to everything and even when the flow of information increases, I think I’d still be able to handle it, especially with the help of an AFL or two (not to say that I would throw all the work on them by any means. That's not really me). Also while I'm on the subject of AFLs, I don't know who i would select yet, but i can say that it is likely that I would offer an invitation to @Nor'baal if I win since he seems to have pretty clearly struck a nerve within the general membership.

 

[Nor'baal]

Alright then, I am going to answer the questions I can currently see both in this thread and in the voting thread itself - as well as ones that I have been asked via PM. I will aim to answer them one at a time.

One question I would like to ask @Nor'baal is why he has revealed his plans to some individuals, but not to the Cartel as a whole. The reason why I'm asking is because from what I have seen(the posts specifically), it seems that Nor'baal is telling some individuals his plans, but not everyone in the Cartel. If I am wrong, and I offend you,, I would like to apologize but I felt it needs to be addressed.

A very valid question Silent, and one that I can answer very simply for you. I have PM'ed nearly every member of the Hutt Cartel, including those who have voted for Phoenix. However, as I am working my way day a list of names, I simply have not got to you yet :) You will be getting a PM from me soon - if you have not got one already, asking for your feedback regarding the Cartel.

What is your plan for the Cartel?

My plan, whilst I am aware of the need to adapt that plan within reason should I become the new faction leader, is to take the Cartel back to its roots - those roots being crime. I appreciate it is the view of former Faction Leaders that the members do not want that, or want less of, and that they want to get involved in the war, and I take that point on board.

My response: Why not both?

The Cartel - whilst it is not blessed with the same quantity of members of other factions - makes up for it in the quality of our membership. We have medium sized base of very dedicated members, some who just want to do their own thing, and others who want to take the fight storming into Sith Territory, or those who want to smoke spice, and beat people up.

Quite simply my plan would see a centralization of the active players under the In Character Faction Leader (which before people ask would not be my character), with their characters given a great deal more flexibility as made men of the Cartel. The Grande Lorda would issue them orders, with the actual members of the cartel making up his own personal gang under the current rank structure. No more would the members just be another cog in the machine, instead they would be the shady characters who ensured the Lorda Council paid their tithes, who piloted the ships that cut into Sith Space, and who whipped the slaves forwards to take that next planet for the Cartel.

Remember back when everyone was assigned a family? I would have that happen again, but everyone would be under the Grande Lordas banner directly! The Grande Lorda as 'King of Kings' with all lesser Lordas of the 5 families paying him their due.

If you wanted you character to be a drug lord the do it. You character would be on of the chosen made men of the Grande Lorda himself, and as long as you worked with the Faction Leadership (outlining your plan in a PM) and could make a good story of it, then run that smuggling operation, take those slaves, or pilot that ship into an Imperial Convoy.

What is your plan for the site story and your faction's impact on it?

Again it is no secret that I feel that there has been a huge lack of communication from the factional Leadership in the past few months. I have felt that the Factions have been acting as support mechanisms for a select few peoples characters, and in my opinion - and the opinion of many other players - that is not how it is supposed to be.

Indeed, the question here actually reflects that mentality very well. It isn't my faction, I simply type things up and act as an overall guide, not a dictator.

My plan is to ensure that at the end of this timeline, the Hutt Cartel members can read that final thread, the final newsletter and say ''We had fun.'' because - shock horror - that is why we are all here. If the Cartels membership want to see us steer headfirst into the Sith Empire, then I am not going to stop you, but what I will do is role-play out, with the assistance of the AFL's (several members I have in mind for this) the IC response of the Lordas. Would they really want to steamroll into an Empire, maybe not? Would they rather sith back and try and bribe there way into corrupting a few new planets - probably.

That is what this must be, a collection of story-writers. As Faction Leader it is my job to guide the story of a Hutt Cartel, based on the actions of its members and the source material we have available - not to use it as a tool to realize my own ambitions for my characters (as so often has been done in the past).

Why should people vote for you over your opponent?

Pheonix hates America.
No but seriously, before this turns into a massive troll fest. I am an avid member of the cartel, and have been role-playing a Hutt (for my sins) since I joined this site. I greatly enjoy the Lore of the Hutts, and have over the course of my time here sought (to varying degrees of success) to share my nerdiness with others.

I like to see the new members here develop in their RP skills, with people such as @Chask274 and even @Livgardist (luv u long tiem) having come on leaps and bounds since they started here. One of the things I actually do as well, is ensure that currently for every thread I do, I do another one helping another player. @The Derp of Hooves and @Candar Syphyx (yes that is a character, sry) is a good example of that, and if you can back even further there are players who have long since fallen into inactivity who I liked to help out.

As far as faction leadership goes, I do not have experience in that area - I wont try and hide it. I do however have the drive, and the motivation to do so, and I hope that the players here can see that. Yes, I have had my disagreements with the former Factional Leadership, however in my eyes - and indeed the evidence is there in the current activity levels - they are justified disputes, and towing the line, keeping quite even when you can see something is wrong, is never the answer.

I also have a question that I know is relevant to at least one of the people in the running.

Lots of people come into the FL spot with big ideas and grand plans to shake up the faction and do things a new way. If you have plans like that, are you prepared to significantly compromise them/scale back on them because there's less than 2 months left in the timeline? Are you prepared to say that there's not enough time to reinvent the wheel, and you have to be the FL of the faction that exists now rather than the faction you wish existed?

It is odd for me to say this, especially as @Brandon Rhea must still remember our PM exchange back when the last faction leadership race was on, but I do think that I must put aside my somewhat grandiose plans in favor of achieving a workable outcome for the faction.

My core plan is to just provide a 1-2 paragraph breakdown of how everyone of the members fits in, with my intention being that everyone works for the Grande Lordas family as his made men in my vision for the cartel (allowing for a greater focus on crime and combat in equal measure, as people are part of a more cohesive group).

I would need to spend a day looking at the current state of the faction behind the scenes, and seeing what current story-line plans are in motion, as I know that pulling the plug on stories already underway at this stage would be reckless and would derail the faction.

My goal is simple to provide cohesion and communication to the members, making sure that they know whre they are, where we are going, and how we can get there. This will be done through the return of newsletters, IC 'Cartel News' Updates, as well as a simply PM system for feedback fro members, with a 'You Said, this happened' section in our newsletters to show what the Leadership has done about your feedback.

Are you up for, and have enough free time, to be FL? It's just a title and writinf a newsletter. Annoying people like me will keep sending you PMs and tag you in profile updates and OOC posts to get what wr want and we'll bitch about it if we don't get it.

Do you think it will hinder your ability to enjoy the RP?

Damn it don't I know it Eccles!
All the messages.
Every day!

:P

But yes, I see what you mean, and I can assure you - as you can tesify to by my 'Eccles I'll post tomorrow', followed by 'Cool, but I haven't posted yet Norbs' comments last week! I am not sure much could slow me down, and I will be sure to make sure that the AFL team are aware of the plans for the future in the event that I do leave (which I have no intention of doing for the next 2-3 months!) so they can carry on without me!

I also don't think that heading up a faction of Hutts can dissuade this Hutt lover from RP :)


I'll wrap up now as this is a pretty long post. In short:

• I'll centralize our membership base around the Grandee Lorda.
• I'll take a look at the current story arc, and work toward getting us more involved.
• Weekly newsletters.
• If people want to kill the Imperials, then we will role-play it out and do it 'Huttish'.
• Have fun, cos that is wot we 'ere for.

I also can see this is close, with Pheonix and myself in at neck and neck here with the votes. I think it is fair to say we have very close amounts of support, and so no matter the outcome, I will respect the vote, but should I win I would certainly ask Pheonix to stay involved, and to consider an offer of AFL-ship as it is clear that both sides of this debate have merits, and both sides have the factions best interest at heart.

 

[TAC]

I promise strippers and blackjack.

#Vote4TAC

 

[Phoenix]

I promise strippers and blackjack.

#Vote4TAC

That's it. @Nor'baal and I lose. All hail TAC

 

[Prudence]

We're going to revive you just so we can kill you again.

You bastard... :D

 

[Livgardist]

Great replies from both of you. May the best Nor'baal win.

>_>

<_<

 

[Sreeya]

My question--

1. What is, in your own words, the true reason for the Hutt faction to go against the Empire? Why are YOU driven to it/why do you think the faction would unite under your banner in this belief? So far it seems like people are driven to it for reasons like 1. Oh Andraste is evil or 2. Admins said that's how the story should go. But where is the real profit in fighting the empire on the side of a small insurgent group vs. striking a deal which could guarantee growth both territory/economy wise? The current Imperium does not enslave/rule via dictatorship within its territory. Andraste may be cooky sometimes, but all citizens are in a flourishing economy and tbh quite content with their liberties. I'd like to see an answer from each of you WITHOUT talking to any other former/current FLs or admins for advice.

2. Why do you think posting missions/activities would help the faction at this stage in the game? How would that tie into an overall story arc for Hutts instead of free for all made up scenarios for people to play out?

3. Can you prove your extensive involvement in the faction thus far? Can you show you've been consistently playing leadership roles within the faction, posting things to encourage activity, doing anything else to consistently build up the faction even when leaders were inactive? Links plz. This shows that it's not someone coming out of the woodwork to just grasp at a power title.

 

[Nor'baal]

Hi Sreeya, and thank you for your questions. I have taken the liberty of breaking them up into three separate quotes so that I can address each one with more clarity.

1. What is, in your own words, the true reason for the Hutt faction to go against the Empire? Why are YOU driven to it/why do you think the faction would unite under your banner in this belief?

In my personal opinion the Hutt Cartel has little IC justification to go to war with the Empire. I think the real reason it is going to war with the Empire is because previous Faction Leaders have dragged the Faction in that direction, ignoring the adage of 'You cannot pull a horse to water.'

However - at the same time I can see a need for their to be a larger story that 'The Empire Ruled, the Hutts did Crime, and the Jedi and former members of the Alliance dreamed of the fall of the Sith'. A war, and I cannot deny it, does make a good story, but at the moment it seems forced. The feedback I have supports profiting from both sides of this war, with about 20% of the responses arguing to continue supporting the Rebellion.

My answer: Why not both?

Do what the Hutts have always done, play the field and support both sides in secret, whilst publicly staying Neutral. A shadow war is just as fun as a public one, and for those of you who will say 'But the Cartel fleet helped the Rebels recently!' cool story, then we can just blame a 'rogue family' IC, slap some fines around, and then offer compensation to the Imperials.

Yes - We are going to help the Rebellion, with funding, materiel and other such endeavors.
No - I am not going to stop the Members from ratting out the Rebellion to the Sith if they want to.
Yes - If we are to throw the Cartels weight completely behind the Rebellion, then the Grandee Lorda needs to see an IC reason as to why he should do that. I do not want an OOC reason, I want an IC one. Dress some folks up as Stormies and massacre a Hutt Family, Poison the Grandee Lorda and make it look like the Imperials did it, but don't get cross if the Sithbeat you to it, and turn the IC political vein of the cartel against you.

I want to see an end to this OOC deal making between Faction Leaders and their Pals. If it isn't IC, if it doesn't make sense, then it is not happening unless there is a very, very good reason for it.

2. Why do you think posting missions/activities would help the faction at this stage in the game? How would that tie into an overall story arc for Hutts instead of free for all made up scenarios for people to play out?

Land Grab.
Plain and simple, I will be launching a Land Grab in the Outer-Rim.

Furthermore I will be taking suggestions for missions and allowing members to - if they have the players for it - to launch their own mission packs. Once I have access to the overall story for the Hutts (which I assume is in the FL Forum/Thread) then I will be announcing how we will be tying missions into it in the next newsletter.

Plain and simple, the Hutts need to throw their weight around, they have the second best army and navy in the game, and are not using it. There are planets on the map that people want to cartel to have., there are planets we should have - and we will be taking them. Likewise, Thyferra, why, why why have we not at least tried to get it back!

One mission arc will be around this, making shady deals with the Sith, or bumping people off to get Thyferra back in our slimy paws.

3. Can you prove your extensive involvement in the faction thus far? Can you show you've been consistently playing leadership roles within the faction, posting things to encourage activity, doing anything else to consistently build up the faction even when leaders were inactive? Links plz. This shows that it's not someone coming out of the woodwork to just grasp at a power title.

Why darn it I can.
I can start with the most recent threads that have come out of the Commission and informal RP group that has seen activity spike within the Enforcer level players. We have had threads coming out of that (I, II, III, IV), and we can go back further to my idea and plan to invade Kessel, which spawned two threads directly, and they others by Silent, mine being here and here. Going yet further back, we even had an Arc in Jiguuna (I, II, and a third one I forgot to link), alongside a meeting of Hutts, and these are just threads I started, and are just for one character. I have done threads (which I can link if you would like) with other players that they have started that focused on helping them set up, to helping them defect or find family members. With other Cartel Characters I have hosted Gambling Tournaments, done Bounties and even set up beast fight tournaments, indeed my first thread I started here was a tournament called 'The Vesajilic Arena', almost 3 years ago.

I hope that answers your questions, and if I may be a little cheeky here, you signed up with a character here, a sign up that was accepted - so if that makes you eligible to vote with your Champios Character, I would urge and ask you to vote Norbs :)

 

[Phoenix]

My question--

1. What is, in your own words, the true reason for the Hutt faction to go against the Empire? Why are YOU driven to it/why do you think the faction would unite under your banner in this belief? So far it seems like people are driven to it for reasons like 1. Oh Andraste is evil or 2. Admins said that's how the story should go. But where is the real profit in fighting the empire on the side of a small insurgent group vs. striking a deal which could guarantee growth both territory/economy wise? The current Imperium does not enslave/rule via dictatorship within its territory. Andraste may be cooky sometimes, but all citizens are in a flourishing economy and tbh quite content with their liberties. I'd like to see an answer from each of you WITHOUT talking to any other former/current FLs or admins for advice.

So the answer to this question is twofold. First there is my character’s personal reason for this and I know for a fact it is not likely the same reason for the Cartel at large. My Champion wants to fight the Empire because he’s a Mandalorian. While he may not be your “conventional” Mandalorian, he still saw the Empire wipe out his people and he has a standing death mark on his head because of it. He can’t walk through Imperial space without taking his life into his own hands. So, he’s not really a fan of the Empire, and has been working with the Rebels ever since he was a Prospect in the Cartel.

That, however, is not why other people would join. So let’s look at it from the IC perspective. At this point, the Cartel just attacked Saleucami and has already been working against the Empire. And we know the Sith aren’t known for their forgiveness, so there’s likely to be some kind of repercussion to that.

So what’s the option? Even if the Sith pardon the Cartel, which let’s be honest is unlikely, what’s to stop them from simply waiting to defeat the Rebels so that they can come back and take revenge on the Cartel? Furthermore, at this point, the Cartel/Rebel/Defiance Armada war machine has been winning almost every battle. Why would the Cartel want to drop out now when they have the opportunity for so much gain?

So then we have to look at this: even a desire for a “peace-treaty” seems to be telling about the Empire. If we are indeed a small enough threat not to be a concern, we would simply be squashed. But if we are a large enough threat that they try to sit us down and get us to stop fighting them, then perhaps that shows an actual concern about the outcome of the war?

I guess what I’m saying is this: overthrowing the Empire creates far greater opportunities for power, wealth, and influence than simply making a deal. It’s a bit of a gamble, yes, because we could lose it all, but we could gain so much more. Also, let’s face it we’re criminals. We are gamblers. This is the “all in” where we could gain the whole galaxy or lose it all. But at this point, it seems we’ve sunk too much money into the pot already to pull out.

2. Why do you think posting missions/activities would help the faction at this stage in the game? How would that tie into an overall story arc for Hutts instead of free for all made up scenarios for people to play out?

I’m not sure I entirely understand this question. What are you referring to by “free for all made up scenarios for people to play out?” As in like a Civil War? In my experience when there’s not some sort of a drive for the faction and people are just left to make up their own stories, it sort of doesn’t help activity.

3. Can you prove your extensive involvement in the faction thus far? Can you show you've been consistently playing leadership roles within the faction, posting things to encourage activity, doing anything else to consistently build up the faction even when leaders were inactive? Links plz. This shows that it's not someone coming out of the woodwork to just grasp at a power title.

I’ve debatably been more active in the last 2-3 months while the Cartel has been going through its transition period than I even was before that. If you look here at the bounties that have been done in the last several months I’ve been involved in 2 out of 5. Those were bounties would have had to be solo’d (and yes at least one of them was signed up to solo until I stepped in and offered to do it with him).

This is a mission where one of the participants was a long standing member of the Cartel, and the other was a member that had just joined that I had the opportunity to write with.

This is another mission that wouldn’t have had enough people if I hadn’t come along to do it.

That’s just a couple of links, I’m not going to link every thread I’ve done with this character recently. If you want a complete list, you can go here, but hopefully that at least helps answer the question. I’ve been very active in the Cartel and looking to help people get missions/bounties/etc. done, even recently when it’s been a bit slow. I don’t think anyone in the Cartel is going to argue that both Norby and myself have been extremely active in the faction.

 

[Sreeya]

Norbaal, your answers make it sound as if you'd have an entire faction where everyone does their own thing. Your ideas don't portray a scenario where you have a collective movement. That has been the challenge for Hutts from day 1 and why this faction hasn't done well. If you have different options all over the place, you don't have a unified faction, you have rag tag groups doing whatever here and there. Why would the members/bounty hunters/enforcers care about land grabs? How do you make them care? But admittedly, I'm glad you see how some things have been forced. That's very, very key.

So the answer to this question is twofold. First there is my character’s personal reason for this and I know for a fact it is not likely the same reason for the Cartel at large. My Champion wants to fight the Empire because he’s a Mandalorian. While he may not be your “conventional” Mandalorian, he still saw the Empire wipe out his people and he has a standing death mark on his head because of it. He can’t walk through Imperial space without taking his life into his own hands. So, he’s not really a fan of the Empire, and has been working with the Rebels ever since he was a Prospect in the Cartel.

That, however, is not why other people would join. So let’s look at it from the IC perspective. At this point, the Cartel just attacked Saleucami and has already been working against the Empire. And we know the Sith aren’t known for their forgiveness, so there’s likely to be some kind of repercussion to that.

So what’s the option? Even if the Sith pardon the Cartel, which let’s be honest is unlikely, what’s to stop them from simply waiting to defeat the Rebels so that they can come back and take revenge on the Cartel? Furthermore, at this point, the Cartel/Rebel/Defiance Armada war machine has been winning almost every battle. Why would the Cartel want to drop out now when they have the opportunity for so much gain?

So then we have to look at this: even a desire for a “peace-treaty” seems to be telling about the Empire. If we are indeed a small enough threat not to be a concern, we would simply be squashed. But if we are a large enough threat that they try to sit us down and get us to stop fighting them, then perhaps that shows an actual concern about the outcome of the war?

I guess what I’m saying is this: overthrowing the Empire creates far greater opportunities for power, wealth, and influence than simply making a deal. It’s a bit of a gamble, yes, because we could lose it all, but we could gain so much more. Also, let’s face it we’re criminals. We are gamblers. This is the “all in” where we could gain the whole galaxy or lose it all. But at this point, it seems we’ve sunk too much money into the pot already to pull out.

1. He saw the Empire wipe out his people, then he was conveniently oblivious to the time when the Mandos/Imperium co-existed just fine. And he does not understand how the Mandalorian in-fighting led to their own collapse. I hope you understand the entire history spanning 4 years instead of recent write ups. I'm talking Corden Vencu/Lucian or whatever days. Even back in Phil days. I'm concerned that you only know a small scope of what has happened thus far and why things unraveled as they did. Your character, who I assume is older than 20, would know full well.

2. The Defiance Armada/Rebels can win every single battle from here on out and it'd change little. They aren't going to be winning large swaths of territory. Why? It's too late in the game to make a real difference. In order to really be a game changer, and make the EMPIRE fall, this movement would've needed to have started at least a year and half ago. Boli is also aware of this, so he's doing one last bum rush to do as much damage as possible. That is being mistakenly thought of as the 'fall of the Empire'. Even if you wipe Andraste and all the Sith, guess what? Nothing changes. The Empire is massive, and little battles here and there aren't as big game changers for territorial games as you think. If we were that concerned about Hutt space, I feel like Empire would have made its move to take over already. Not only has the Imperium NOT done that, but it also hasn't exactly prohibited Hutts from expanding out South in the galaxy, which is wide open space. I don't see weight in your argument much more than "well we had this fight so we should keep going". =/

I hope you don't think I'm grilling you. I really want you to be educated on the history and tactical reasons for things (you AND Norbaal). This timeline we've been guilty of hand waving stories into play that don't make much sense (including unfortunately a plot I was dragged into), and I hope you can define the faction uninfluenced by only what you've heard recently. I only wanted to clear up any misconceptions, because I know there are a lot of them going around since I was last active. A lot of the key players from before aren't here anymore so it's important to recall stuff from earlier in the timeline and weigh that into decisions instead of only looking at recent past.

Good luck to both of you. :)

 

[The Kyzer]

@Sreeya Are we about to have to have another talk about how "it doesn't count as an ethnic cleanse if you don't actually kill them all"? Does that make it an ethnic soak? Maybe an ethnic rinse cycle?

As for the Defiance Armada/Rebellion jab about how we can win every battle and still not make a difference, we're merely doing the same strategy you used to justify an Imperial victory pre-timeskip. Don't try and bring your rainy day and Haterade over here. Plus, everyone:

Couldn't resist that one.

EDIT: Sorry I engaged, guys. Couldn't resist any longer. BACK TO DEBATE!

@Norby How do you plan on withdrawing from a war that you're already a major part of?

@Phoenix How do you like your eggs?

I felt like I needed to ask both parties questions but Ryan already answered all of the ones I would have had. Don't worry, I'll come up with a good one!

 

[Sreeya]

Tbh if you guys did this for years and consistently won every single fight, then yeah it makes sense. I didn't justify any strategy, actually. It was staff decision to do a time skip and then result in expansion. There were entire planetary/ground/etc. invasions for a long, long time before the skip was made to spice up the story after it got boring/stale. If we do this same thing for another year from now with no end to timeline in sight, then hell yeah we'd see Rebels owning big swaths of territory. Out of sheer boredom of the same crap. But in reality, no.. little battle wins WON'T have the same effect it would've had if this had happened a long time ago. That's not a fault of anyone, it's just a series of poor decisions/situations that made it so the Jedi/Rebel side never kicked off for years.

I'm sorry you have issues with me. I hope you can talk to me one on one and work it out instead of snidely attacking me on assumptions you have made without ever getting to know me. I really am not a mean person ^_^

 

[Phoenix]

1. He saw the Empire wipe out his people, then he was conveniently oblivious to the time when the Mandos/Imperium co-existed just fine. And he does not understand how the Mandalorian in-fighting led to their own collapse. I hope you understand the entire history spanning 4 years instead of recent write ups. I'm talking Corden Vencu/Lucian or whatever days. Even back in Phil days. I'm concerned that you only know a small scope of what has happened thus far and why things unraveled as they did. Your character, who I assume is older than 20, would know full well.

I'm well aware of the Mandalorian Civil Wars, the "Mandalore the power grab," the run on the blockade, etc. That still doesn't change the fact that Tal Veren has a bounty on his head from the Empire. Regardless of the reason, that's not going to make him a friend to the Empire. If your argument is really that the Mandalorians shouldn't be upset that they're all marked for death because "they brought it on themselves" then I'm sorry, but that's not really a valid argument.

Also, "the time when the Mandos/Imperium co-existed just fine" was before, well you know, the Empress declared that all Mandalorians should be killed on sight. That's kind of like saying, "well the Armenians shouldn't hold a grudge against the Ottomans because they all coexisted before the Armenian Genocide." Negative feelings following genocide tend to outweigh any previous relations.

2. The Defiance Armada/Rebels can win every single battle from here on out and it'd change little. They aren't going to be winning large swaths of territory. Why? It's too late in the game to make a real difference. In order to really be a game changer, and make the EMPIRE fall, this movement would've needed to have started at least a year and half ago. Boli is also aware of this, so he's doing one last bum rush to do as much damage as possible. That is being mistakenly thought of as the 'fall of the Empire'. Even if you wipe Andraste and all the Sith, guess what? Nothing changes. The Empire is massive, and little battles here and there aren't as big game changers for territorial games as you think. If we were that concerned about Hutt space, I feel like Empire would have made its move to take over already. Not only has the Imperium NOT done that, but it also hasn't exactly prohibited Hutts from expanding out South in the galaxy, which is wide open space. I don't see weight in your argument much more than "well we had this fight so we should keep going". =/

So your argument essentially boils down to "you don't have enough time IRL left to win, so don't do anything." Maybe we don't have enough time left IRL to finish this story, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be done IC. Why would i abandon something that would work IC just because OOC i don't have enough time left? The Rebels and Cartel currently have more forces in this TL than the Rebels did in the movies, yet they won. So, yes, while the Empire may be huge, that doesn't mean they can't win.