Former President Carter Blasts Bush.

[Kit]

Yeah, i get your points, but i was just pointing out, that so far, from what i can tell, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but both Matt, and Bac are basing their statements of of opinion, which is based off a number of americans they know.

I can't even remember what point im trying to make now... I guess that's my cue to leave then.

enjoy!

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The point I was trying to make was that I know many people throughout the country and can more accurately guess, which IS what official polls do afterall, what the majority of Americans believe in certain cases in the same manner that those who make polls do.

 

[Scarface]

It seems a tad arrogant (on both your parts, and polls as a whole) to base an assumption that Americans do or don't hate George Bush. And without polling over 300 million people, we will never know whether they do or don't. Besides if we WERE to guess we could look to the election stats.

I am popular of the phrase "Assume makes an ass out of you and me".

 

[Brandon Rhea]

You're right, I am making an assumption, just as poll-makers make an assumption. Hell, I'm making my assumption in the very same way that poll-makers do it. I don't see how that is arrogant.

 

[Scarface]

Arrogant in the way of saying what was going on earlier, "I know more Americans than you do" to paraphrase. I see making assumptions as very arrogant, like how many people I know say "America is the best country in the world!" without ever stepping foot out of it, things like that.

 

[Empress]

one problem with polls is that they can be tainted, swayed...

Lets say Im doing a poll about bush in three locations, San Fransisco, Austin, Albuquerque and interview 300 people in each city

in san fran a VERY and at time extremest ( depending on the mayor at the time) liberal city;
out of 300, 200 held a over the top and somewhat unexplainable reason to hate him with a passion, 50 had no opinion and the rest had a disapproval based on various political points " that are well stated"

well those 200 people could basically be what I personally call party mimics... they know jack crap about the subject really, other than " the liberal media, and more vocal politicians seem to hate him this much so we will and buy into everything the media states, fact or not ( all parties have people like this)

in Austin the poll is almost exact opposite

in Albuquerque, a more divided state * despite Richardson being Democrat, the NM gov is normally 50/50 rep/dem * the poll reflects that nature with about 125 approval, 119 disapprovals, and rest undecided



now lets say Im useing this for a statistic in a news publication...well for more conservative founded or directed papers, I'll use the austin info ( but not really touch on where I got it)
again for the NY times, or more liberal papers I'd use another poll...
which of course CNN/NBC/Fox etc etc would draw the same info from the sources that THEY want to present..


now not to say all polls are swung, but it's a very simple example on how easy they are to add a " touch" depending on what your trying to get, all you need do is look in the right places.




now as for this admin " and remember I live both UK, and US worlds equally at this point still)

While GWB has made many poor error calls, and has some policies I dont always agree with...as a choice maker, I dont like the way he works, I distrust his advisor's more than really blaming him " in large the US pres is more or less a symbol, and mouth piece with a final say, but most of the poor choices came from senate, and the house...people forget that 90% of the time when complaining about bush.

As a leader and a man, I give him massive respect, though not always making the right call, he makes those calls from his heart, and gut, he follows through despite the slander on capital hill, and he keeps his head up, he honestly believes in his feelings and follows them...

most others in politics jump from one agenda to the other, re stating previous comments so that they seems to mean something different as political moods shift, they change personas back and forth at the slightest word from the party leaders or interest groups... George does that very little if at all, watch him when he's passionate about something, when he feels he needs to say something.. he does it.. and often against his staff, or advisor's wishes... and its having faith in himself, and the balls to stick to it despite convoluted dribble all over..that earns alot of respect..

and my time in the us, to respond to matt and scurge, the only people I've ever known to completely hate him as a man have been extreme liberals, and often dont really have much to say other than being parrots of the more far left party members previous comments..

I know many many many more who disprove of his leading style, but do consider him a very noble hearted man with very good, if not misguided intentions

then yes a few die hards who from what I've seen are the conservative variant of the parrot liberals..


again it's all about where you look

 

[Matt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scarface @ May 23 2007, 04:00 AM) [snapback]164379[/snapback]</div>

Arrogant in the way of saying what was going on earlier, "I know more Americans than you do" to paraphrase. I see making assumptions as very arrogant, like how many people I know say "America is the best country in the world!" without ever stepping foot out of it, things like that.[/b]

Not arrogent to say he knows more americans then me.

he point I was trying to make is that it doesn't matter how many americans we all know, none of us have a fair representation of the majority.

 

[Jetzt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Consort @ May 21 2007, 11:58 PM) [snapback]164303[/snapback]</div>

Indeed. He's the type of guy you'd want to go to a barbeque with.[/b]

Yes, I would very much enjoy talking to him about how many people he has sent to be slaughtered in a pointless war while casually getting pissed, snorting some powder and eating some ribs.

 

[Epic]

Wow, you broke my sarcasometer!


Seriously, though, he's a nice guy...Just not a nice President. And even still, why do we even blame HIM when it's really his administration? You can't put the blame on one guy when it's more than just one who's leading the Country. Blame some of Congress, too! The Blame mostly lies with the Bush ADMINISTRATION, not George W. Bush himself.

But look at the bright side; things have changed since the beginning of the war.

He's looking for a way out, but can't find out that's suitable. We can't pull a Vietnam and just up and leave, since that'll be handing Iraq to Iran or some Terrorist Group, which means bad news for everyone in the Western Hemisphere. And even worse news if it's Iran, since the next step would be obliterating Israel.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Aaron @ May 23 2007, 08:49 PM) [snapback]164438[/snapback]</div>

The Blame mostly lies with the Bush ADMINISTRATION, not George W. Bush himself.[/b]

"The buck stops here." - President Harry S. Truman, one of the greatest Presidents the United States has ever had.

 

[Hassan]

The Blame mostly lies with the Bush ADMINISTRATION, not George W. Bush himself.[/b]

A president makes a countries foriegn policy. Not the administration. A Cabinet is made by its president. Not the administration.

The Blame is on President Bush. No one else. He tried to do what his father failed to do. and failed miserablly.

He's looking for a way out, but can't find out that's suitable. We can't pull a Vietnam and just up and leave, since that'll be handing Iraq to Iran or some Terrorist Group, which means bad news for everyone in the Western Hemisphere. And even worse news if it's Iran, since the next step would be obliterating Israel.[/b]

Actually it will prob be handing Iraq...... Well there wont be an iraq. lol.

Full Civil war errupts. Every major religious/organisation type splits from iraq. The Nation known as Iraq is finished. Kurds try to form Kurdistan. Kurdish nationals from Turkey, Iran and other countries decide to break from their own countries and join the new Kurdish Nation.

Turkey uses this excuse to sieze vital oil fields from the kurds in iraq under the premise of "Were trying to keep control of our lands against hostile separatist!!!"

etc etc.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aowc02 @ May 23 2007, 11:22 PM) [snapback]164457[/snapback]</div>

He tried to do what his father failed to do. and failed miserablly.[/b]

His father failed at very little, so you're going to have to be a bit more specific than that.

 

[Epic]

True, he could do more, but he's not the brightest bulb in the box(That phrase courtesy of my Great Granpa John). He's too easily influenced by the people around him, which can be a good or bad thing. Ironically, he's not very trusting of Congress, it seems.

Damnit! Youse guys is fast! Either that or my PC wanted to be an Ass and took me to the wrong page...

 

[Scarface]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Consort @ May 23 2007, 08:20 PM) [snapback]164440[/snapback]</div>

"The buck stops here." - President Harry S. Truman, one of the greatest Presidents the United States has ever had.[/b]

Eh, that's debatable.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Consort @ May 23 2007, 10:28 PM) [snapback]164458[/snapback]</div>

His father failed at very little, so you're going to have to be a bit more specific than that.[/b]

I think what he was getting at was the Gulf War, which didn't turn out too great, but not too bad either. Plus many people question Bush senior's ability to carry out that war since he didn't take out Saddam when he had the chance.

 

[Matt]

His father was smart enough to know when to listen to the public. No one wanted the war to continue.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

That, and Bush 41 flat out publically said that going into Baghdad without the support of the United Nations and the entire international community would prove to be disasterous.

Familiar?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Scarface @ May 24 2007, 11:58 PM) [snapback]164517[/snapback]</div>

Eh, that's debatable.[/b]

Every leader has to be accountable for what happens under their command.

 

[Scarface]

Yes they do, my only problem (and what I was getting at) is that he spurred the technology of nuclear weapons by being the first to use them, and thankfully the only one to date.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Keep in mind that he was only following the wishes of his predecessor.