The First Sith: Experience Points and Character Levels

[Loco]

Maybe they just have to like, deal with reality, and accept the fact that there's not even close to enough experienced knights or masters to train a bunch of padawans. /thread

 

[1new6]

not sure if it's been said but from a meta standpoint, the padawan rank is usually extremely restrictive and ends up causing more trouble than its worth. in timeline 5 for instance, you had droves on droves on padawans sitting on the roster, desperately trying to find someone to teach them. they ran into some problems:

1. being a mater sucks, for most people. it's a lot of effort and pressure on the master.

2. training threads are garbage, and having to do them constantly makes people lose interest in their characters and factions.

now, you may say "relent! you're dumb, i love all of those things and would totes be down to master or padawan!"

well, frankly, you're in the minority there. as was shown this TL, faction members are much more productive and get more fulfillment in their characters being able to skip useless rankings like padawan or whatever the sith equivalent is.


something to ponder, at least.

And I agree. As I said before, even though I initially was pretty against the idea of removing the padwan rank I changed my mind. I don't think a Padwan rank would work for this TL, and I see where people were coming from when they said it just really doesn't work in general. Frankly I think the destruction of the Padwan rank in lore is a pretty cool driving force for rp instead and does a much better job at fostering possible stories then a Padawan-Master system. I just want to know exactly how it fits together and how this works into the themes and possible plots of this next TL.

 

[Rannuk]

And I agree. As I said before, even though I initially was pretty against the idea of removing the padwan rank I changed my mind. I don't think a Padwan rank would work for this TL, and I see where people were coming from when they said it just really doesn't work in general. Frankly I think the destruction of the Padwan rank in lore is a pretty cool driving force for rp instead and does a much better job. I just want to know exactly how it fits together and how this works into the themes and possible plots of this next TL.

But... do we know for certain the Padawan rank even existed at this point as we know it? Could it not be an innovation post-conflict?

 

[1new6]

In-universe, we will be saying that the Jedi abolished their Padawan rank. This is a desperate time. There numbers are decimated. Expecting a 13 year old to spend 7 years in training (because, story-wise, that's what's realistic even if that's not how training works on the site) when he or should is fully capable of swinging a lightsaber in battle would be a waste of a soldier. And unlike in the Clone Wars, where Jedi like Ahsoka could go into battle while still being part of a Padawan/Master duo, these Jedi don't have the luxury of that kind of formal structure. So once someone can swing a lightsaber and is of a reasonable age, they are made a Knight and put into battle.

@Rannuk , according to this post, yes the Padwan rank was abolished, not made after the war. Not only that but it downright states that the purpous of cutting the rank of padwan by the Jedi Council was because it was essentially a waste of bodies. It also seems to imply the kids as young as 13 could be run through the hastened training course in less then 7 years. So no matter what way you slice it the Jedi are still essentially using child soldiers who have not had the full Jedi training, though maybe I am just misreading things.

 

[Rannuk]

@Rannuk , according to this post, yes the Padwan rank was abolished, not made after the war. It also seems to imply the kids at least as young as 13 could be ran through the hastened training course in less then 7 years. So no matter what way you slice it the Jedi are still essentially using child soldiers who have not had the full Jedi training, though maybe I am just misreading things.

Forgive me but I cannot find Brandon saying anything along the lines of "Padawan rank was abolished." He just jumps in to the practicalities of starting characters at Knight instead. Am I missing something?

 

[1new6]

In-universe, we will be saying that the Jedi abolished their Padawan rank.

@Rannuk I originally quoted the entire paragraph by Brandon, but here is the sentence I was referring to.

 

[Rannuk]

@Rannuk I originally quoted the entire paragraph by Brandon, but here is the sentence I was referring to.

Completely missed that post, I apologize.

In that case, yes, it's a gritty element that the Jedi are militarizing children entrusted to them otherwise, which creates a setting for a very long, bloody war and a crushing galactic depression. Is what it is.

 

[1new6]

Completely missed that post, I apologize.

In that case, yes, it's a gritty element that the Jedi are militarizing children entrusted to them otherwise, which creates a setting for a very long, bloody war and a crushing galactic depression. Is what it is.

Np, I should probably have made it clearer the quote was from Brandon in my original post.

 

[Rannuk]

Np, I should probably have made it clearer the quote was from Brandon in my original post.

We're the new kids, we're going to make mistakes.

 

[Loco]

The Jedi have always essentially trained and deployed child soldiers. The only thing changing now is their title and to some extent their length of supervision.

 

[1new6]

The Jedi have always essentially trained and deployed child soldiers. The only thing changing now is their title and to some extent their length of supervision.

In lore (at least legends lore) the furthest the Jedi went in using padawan soldiers was during the clone wars. Even in the middle of the war with the Sith empire in the times of the old republic, most if not all Padawans completed their training on the safety of Tython (as can be seen not only in the beginning of the SWTOR game but later references to the destruction of Tython by the Sith near the end of the old republic), before being released into the real world. That means during the clone wars, the time when by all rights the Jedi had become the most corrupt and most desperate (discounting some points during the era of the Jedi Lords, right before the Ruusan Reformations), they still thought it a good idea to give padwans some measure of safety and supervision. I would argue that that lack of supervision now is a pretty big deal and spells out the decent into truly using child soldiers.

Also, last point. Based on Brandon’s post, it would seem it is even less likely that this practice began early on in the war. This dissolving of the Padwan ranks was explicitly stated to be a ploy to get more bodies in the battlefield, even if those bodies are 14-17 years old and probably will end up getting themselves killed. I can’t see the Jedi council trying this, or the Jedi order (somewhat) accepting this drastic of a measure unless the war had dragged on for a VERY long time (say 80 to 90 years). This combined with my earlier assumption about the promotion of non Padaknights in recent years leads me to believe this practice started very recently and all the implications of it may not yet have been felt by the order at large (which I could see leading to some amazing rp within the Jedi order).

 

[Malon]

Guys, at this point, the debate over the Padawan rank is derailing this thread and becoming disruptive. Therefore, the discussion is over. Thank you.

@1new6

 

[1new6]

Guys, at this point, the debate over the Padawan rank is derailing this thread and becoming disruptive. Therefore, the discussion is over. Thank you.

@1new6

Ok, I guess I didn't mean to go on for quite so long with speculation; sorry about that.

 

[The Good Doctor]

So, would starting Dark Side characters be able to start off knowing force lightning?

 

[Fyston]

To expound on that a little bit more, will there be a powers by level list/generally accepted guideline?

 

[Phoenix]

To expound on that a little bit more, will there be a powers by level list/generally accepted guideline?

More information about the Force will be forthcoming

 

[Jake]

I just checked the site after hearing that Rian Johnson would be directing another trilogy, and was surprised to see this thread posted. Maybe some of the staff will remember a thread I made in the suggestion forum like... 5 years ago. At the time a lot of my points were poorly expressed, I was younger and didn't even really have a clear idea of what exactly I was suggesting. I think it was early fourth timeline and I am probably misremembering a few details about the general climate on the site. Back then, indy factions like Ols' grey jedi faction thing (I can't remember what they were called) commanded a lot of IC activity, but there were a lot of arbitrary limits about indy factions yet we were in a period way before the system-based approach the site takes now.

Everything was mostly based off common sense or just never really determined at all, way before character death and PVP took hold of how the site functions, and although Mancery was already long gone, you could still get away with goofy stuff. I had a character that could revive dead PCs as zombies with some loosely justified bullshit, and so forth. I don't think there was a character limit when I posted it, as IIRC, the original 10 character limit came into existence around when Jade Galactic appeared. Battles were an absolute clusterfuck because there was no structure to them beyond posting orders, and it was a big problem that the timelines would get stuck because all the actual conflicts turned into month-long slogs that usually needed OOC cleaning up when everyone got sick of it. caveat, I haven't been paying attention for the last year or two, but battles have always caused a lot of OOC drama, so that probably is still the case. All I mean is the system behind them was different and less systematic and far more pure narrative chaos.

Anyway, in that suggestion thread my main point was that indy faction membership should correlate to IC relevance even if they ended up rivaling main factions if they represented a lot of activity. Then later on stuff like Jade Galactic happened and rules were put in place around this, and indy factions had more power, and I think they've gotten nerfed/restricted again since then, but in general indy factions are more relevant to the timeline itself than they were back then (although I think there were a few notable exceptions even back then).

I argued that battles needed to be highly systematized because back then there was just no order to them at all, and that the timeline could have a more resource-based approach based off winning important territories. That character death/combat (back then there was very little of this) added a more randomized element to the timeline that was important to keeping it fresh (this probably came full circle and now needs to be changed, or at least that seemed like the general atmosphere about it a few years ago when I had an activity stint). I think I might have tried to argue that fewer characters = more personal stories that matter more when they end, and keep people more invested, and that narrative content should be more related to faction rank and character importance than member seniority (back then if you had ever had a character at Master level you never needed to go through the motions again, and there was a lot of abuse of this because there was no character limit and training was a pretty nebulous thing back then).

I think there was other stuff in there too, but maybe I'm making it more than it was in my memory. If anyone remembers it then maybe they can refresh any bullshit I'm spewing, lol. but my point in remembering is that way back then, my points weren't argued very well, the systems I put forward as suggestions probably weren't very coherent, a lot of what I was suggesting just wasn't relevant enough at the time to make dedicated changes for, and in general it was completely reasonable that back then the thread amounted to an interesting discussion, but ultimately didn't gain traction. A lot of that shit probably just wouldn't have worked if it'd been implemented back in the day.

I haven't even been really, seriously active since close to that time, but I've always been lurking and thinking that slowly, SWRP has evolved as a roleplaying site. I think that it takes itself a lot more seriously now as a place where writers can cultivate their craft and are rewarded for their investment in the game for making the game more interesting. A lot of that has required treading around the limits of its reputation as a freeform system. Nonetheless, as these changes have slowly been incorporated in increments over the years (battle systems), or even come full circle and turned into aspects of the RP that maybe need toned down or refined (pvp as the only way to move timeline forward, and PKing in general?), I've thought that SWRP has become a more interesting and maybe even more "serious" place to RP, and that the stories in general mature into more engaging tales that are more inspiring to write about.

So yeah, that is my extremely rambling way of saying that, as a curious outsider who has seen the system evolve a lot over a long period of time (2018 will be my tenth year, and SWRP was conceived in its current iteration as a vBulletin site in 2005, so holy shit I've now been around for 75% of its lifespan in some capacity)... I think these changes are awesome. They make me want to come back and be active again, and follow a character's arc from beginning to end to tell a story over a span of years and across many threads.

It's also great that the franchise has been immortalized longterm with the new content. A lot of members, not even very new ones, might have come in the wake of TFA being announced, but the site's core and a great deal of its past was spent in a vacuum after the end of the prequels. I wondered, before we could ever know otherwise, if maybe the years would grind by and SWRP would slowly be a roleplaying fandom that loses relevance and burns out, like you see happening in communities that have experienced less longevity, like Naruto and Bleach and even kind of Star Trek (until the new movies and now Discovery).

it seems like SWRP will be around for the long haul though, and revising itself into a newer and different game with every iteration, and that is pretty cool.

tl;dr I think SWRP isn't afraid to change core aspects of its system over time, and that has kept it alive and different over nearly a decade and a half, and that it shows no sign of stopping. That is awesome.

 

[Sarah]

What's a sub account, anyway? Also yes I'm still alive. Barely.

 

[Rorren]

What's a sub account, anyway? Also yes I'm still alive. Barely.

@Sarah

I'm not an admin or expert but here's how a sub account worked before at least:

A sub account is a separate account with the name of your character, and it IS your character. You would log on and roleplay with that account as that character.

Your main account would be used places like here, for forum discussion and OOC chat. Now with the new updates where sub accounts are essential instead of an organization/immersion option, I'm guessing changes will be implemented to make sub accounts accessible from main accounts instead of logging in and out all the time. I also believe they will be restricted from posting outside of roleplay threads. This is so no accidents happen with the new posting levels system.

These are things I believe I've heard anyways, but I'm very open to corrections on anything I've said. Hope this helps!

PS Congratulations on survival, it can be rather tough nowadays.

 

[Rannuk]

Sooo I guess that would mean this is my sub account and I need to make a "main."