The Broken (?) Ranking System

[Crackerjack Bohemian]

Why can't a Knight with more experience be just as strong as a newly-appointed Master with much less experience?

(Apparently this couldn't be discussed anywhere else...)

 

[Black Noise]

There is so much wrong with that statement. So much.

Lets put this into VIDEO GAME TERMS.
Padawan, knight, master, they are all like level CAPs. Each has a set amount of powers and strength they may reach before hitting a CAP. Once they have hit that cap, they must REQUEST FOR A LEVEL UP. If their level up is DENIED. They cannot simply continue getting stronger, they must do what is required to LEVEL up.
Ignoring these things is called Cheating in games, God Modding in the RP community, and BS in my eyes.

 

[Crackerjack Bohemian]

There is so much wrong with that argument. So much.

I don't remember this being a video game and I don't see much validity in comparing RPing with Video Gaming. There's no 'leveling up' and there's no 'cap.' There are titles and abilities which are separate entities in RPing. Yes, they usually go hand-in-hand, but there are always cases where this can and even should be deviated from. Deviation is creative and even logical at times. There's no reason for a 52 year old Knight to be just as good at 27 year old Master. In a video game, this could not happen. In a realm such as this, it's completely possible. Perhaps they haven't been discovered or haven't allowed themselves to be evaluated by the Master to be awarded a new rank. Perhaps they denied the rank. Perhaps they left the Order (whichever that may be). This is Role-playing, not video-gaming.

 

[BlueberryPai]

I am interested to see this clarified.

I was always under the permission that Ranks was more of a formality, if anything. More power inside the faction, but is unrelated to one' actual Power. That means a Darth has more authority than an Arcanist, but the latter could be more powerful in the Force, or better with a saber.

 

[Jiang Winters]

You are both entirely wrong.

There is no such thing as a level 'cap' on SWRP.

Any character of any rank may learn any number of powers at any given time. Certain powers may not be formally taught to padawans or knights, but that's more or less up to the discretion of their Master and the Council. Some powers may not even be allowed on the site, and some truly broken characters with an endless repertoire of skills, abilities, and weaponry may be nerfed. [I have only seen this happen a couple times.] That is up to the discretion of the staff.

The only 'cap' insofar as abilities are concerned are lightsaber forms; even then, that's more of a soft cap as there is literally no practical reason to learn more than 1-2 saber forms.

In practical terms, there is nothing stopping a Padawan or Knight from becoming just as powerful as a Master or even a Councilor. The same applies for indie characters. How powerful you are depends largely on how skillfully you utilize your resources and how much training and experience you've had, not on being a 'Level 5 Knight'.

Levels and skills are for video games, not storytelling. That's always been the belief on this site. :3

 

[Demiurge]

There is nothing that says a Jedi Knight could not be as powerful as a Jedi Master, should his experience give merit to the claim. For example, a Jedi Knight that has slain a Sith Lord has, in theory, displayed Master-level prowess, even if he does not posses the title. Hell, this could even apply to a Padawan and Sith Lord. A title is granted upon a Jedi being evaluated and deemed worthy, not something you just get when you're strong enough - it takes more than strength.

 

[Black Noise]

That's something I have never been told before. Thanks Xeno and Jiang! <3

 

[Crackerjack Bohemian]

Thank you for the clarity.

As for the Saber Forms, learning and knowing, are they two separate things? I don't know any skilled Crusader or Knight that does not know of the Saber Forms and doesn't understand them on a basic level. Whether they utilize them skillfully in battle is a separate matter entirely, I would assume. However, this would not mean they wouldn't be able to use some basic techniques of other Forms for moment or so. How loose is this aspect.

And since Jiang specified Forms, specifically, what kind of stipulations are there on Force Powers? How 'powerful' and how many can one have given rank? Is the quality and quantity solely determinant on rank or does experience outweigh rank, in most situations? I mean, one wouldn't formally be able to learn a power restricted from their rank, but that doesn't make it impossible to learn, correct? I mean, that's the idea...

 

[Mars]

Lightsaber forms mean nothing in combat and people who try to pin the force into specific powers are trying too hard to make it like a video game.

/lazy post.

 

[Demiurge]

Lightsaber forms mean nothing in combat and people who try to pin the force into specific powers are trying too hard to make it like a video game.

/lazy post.

Essentially, this. Lightsaber forms are purely cosmetic and dictate nothing aside from establishing your preferential style of RPing with your lightsaber. Even then however, very, very few RPers actually roleplay their characters accurately using the distinctions of the style, and often fight however they choose in a given situation. Styles created during the foundations of the New Jedi Order (Aurum, Caesitas and Erythros) were brought into this timeline to open the way for more more simplified fighting with sabers, but it really didn't make a difference in that way. When it comes to a lightsaber battle, or any form of battle really, the victor is determined via a roleplayer's talent and aptitude. So just because a Sith knows Vapaad doesn't mean he'd beat a Jedi that knows Shii-Cho.

Another misconception is on how many lightsaber forms you know. Knowing and practicing multiple lightsaber forms is perfectly fine - most Jedi know several. The objection comes when people attempt to establish mastery of said form, which is a rare thing among Jedi and Sith alike. Most Jedi master a single form in their life, with a thing or two from other forms. Some Jedi Masters have two or even three under their belt, and you can count on your hand the amount in canon that have mastered them all. Hence, on this site, you cannot master more than two styles, iirc (these rules are often updated). You can have knowledge of other forms, but that will be the extent.

Now styles are different, most Jedi master all the styles during Knighthood, as they are pace based and much more fundamental to using the lightsaber in-and-of-itself, as opposed to a specialized form. Force powers are more rigid, as there is far more potential for abuse - and this is not unwarranted, such abuse has happened. By rule of thumb, core force abilties (such as Psychokinesis, Telepathy, Precognition, etc.) rudimentary Dark (such as Force Lightning, Dark Rage, Drain Life, etc.) and Light (such as Force Heal, Tutaminis, Plant Surge, etc.) are all acceptable. Extreme powers, such as Fold Space, Dimension Shift, Wall of Light or Supernova, are completely out of the question. This is very gray grounds, so more often than not, if you're not sure about a power you'd like to practice, shoot a private message to an administrator

 

[Orphen]

"Xen-bro-morph" has spoken, XD

I've always been on a similar consensus. I recently had the argument that a padawan could not be as strong as a master. My response is it really falls under the situation. If you're an incredibly skilled force user and fighter, but a mental reckloose you're not going to get promoted to knight, or master. But that by no means, means that you stop becoming stronger and stronger. Knight, and master are fundamentally titles. Which have guidelines presented upon them, mostly to do with political power, as opposed to physical.

Though, be that as it may, the rules are still there. I'd hold off knowing other lightsaber styles formerly to any level of mastery. Say he's studied them. Sure. But knowing them still implies you use them.

 

[StormWolf]

Depends on character type too. For example, my character Rhonun started off with a much higher than average strength, but I leveled him out with limited wisdom and non-existant social skills at inception. At the get go, he could physically overpower many of the opponents he faced. Granted, he got his anus handed to him because he lacked the skill, but physically he was a challenge for pretty much everyone who sparred with him. Now that he is a Knight, 1 point away from max strength, a practitioner of Djem So and Juyo/Vaapad, I would wager some of my art supplies (not too much, I'm too cheap) that Rhonun could duel against a "Jack of All Trades" Master and physically dominate them. Rho is strong in the Force too, but he is no Yoda and he doesn't even employ the Force all that often in combat outside of standard utility purposes. Even in combat, he uses Barrier, Bellow, Push/Pull and that is about it.

I always viewed the titles just as what they are - titles. Just as a peasant is no less of a person than a nobleman, and Padawan is no less than a Knight, who is no less than a Master. The difference is simply time served. Nothing more. In fact, a Master/Darth could easily degrade once reaching such a status, falling victim to their own victory. A common vice in the real world

 

[Apollyon]

People think titles = power here, which is largely untrue. For a jedi the title of Master canonically was given to a Jedi who not only lived by the code but exemplified it in their lifestyle, they weren't necessarily the STRONGEST Jedi, but among the wisest. So it is perfectly logical that a Knight could be stronger then a philosophical Master, if the knight had focused in on combat.

 

[Cassanova]

A great deal of what being a Jedi Master is, is in its name. To become a Master a Jedi must typically have excelled beyond any doubt at a given skill and have successfully trained at least one Padawan. Beyond that, I believe GABA seeks a level of activity, not just on the forum, but also with the character itself.

 

[Empress]

active levels are big...

another aspect, again with the Jedi is a clear understanding IC and both OOC that you actually understand what it is to be a Jedi, understand the concepts of multi philosophies etc, basically as pax said.

and thats a big thing, when trying to maintain a stable, strong, and mentally focused goal oriented faction it's imperative that those taking on a role, and responsibility to " bring up the next batch" know beyond a shadow of a doubt what it is they are doing- what powers you have is largely irrelevant- same with saber forms...

Luminous beings are we, not this crude flesh

another to is attitude on the ooc level, again you represent the jedi order of the faction options, and more over the site itself. A new member joins and gets a master who oocly was just given a rank to appease them, but is other wise a douche and a half- how do you think that would reflect on the site as a whole?


so these as well as pretty much everything else mentioned are just SOME of the things to consider when you really start looking at many of the higher ranks in a faction.

in short: Ability has almost nothing to do with it, but there are many many potential reasons to consider.