Star Wars: Attack Squadrons

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Thankfully, having knowledge of something over someone else doesn't require that I live or exist in the same demographic that they do. Thank (a possibly non-existent) god for education. :D

Definitely wouldn't call it that. You have your own perks, interests, and dispositions just like your aside comment to what I can tell are the religious beliefs you hold. They don't make you any better or worse than anyone else when making decisions for what media to consume or how we go about partaking in it.

I've talked to plenty of people who think League is actually a giant very transparent cash cow as you described when compared to MOBAs like DOTA. They think the inherent lack of option to pay for the content up front like any other game and access all the content is just the same as other playing to win. As much balance as Riot has put into the game it plain and simple does have its share of characters who are better than others. So working for hours in one game just to get one character without having to pay money is basically how F2P has to work to try and incentivise players to keep on trucking or break down and fork out real life currency.

Activision billions in revenue without actually updating the game any

I always have this conversation with people. Call of Duty has definitely changed with each passing iteration in terms of how the multi-player is structured. COD 4 and it's WWII actual carbon copy (but no less fun) obvious changes aside MW2 tried to tack on too many added things without changing the core and, to me, it is the weakest titles only beaten out by COD 3. Black Ops changed how the class system and progression worked with the economy based COD points system. There you won points after each match that you could use to buy certain pieces of kit or certain attachments for guns. Along with this idea they were able to add gambling style games called wager matches that definitely added to the TDM and CTF formula where you bet said COD points and could either hamper or streamline your advancement depending on how much you put at stake.

MW3 was a safer title, but offered different ways to play with kill streaks. Killstreaks gave you the option of supporting the team with a constant aggregate point system to call in things like body armor or advanced UAVs for the whole team to use. The more common killing killstreaks were present in another tier and the option to not be able to call in any extra supports in favor of earning extra perks for kills was present. Black Ops 2 further changed things by adding a point system to your classes that most threw away structure of your class in favor of a ten point system where you allocated your kit depending on you wanted where you could do away with literally everything if you wanted including perks. Ghosts took systems from MW3 and Black Ops 2 and combined them for familiar, but new gameplay and admittedly has made the least change since MW2, but from what I could play still worked.

COD titles continually outsell themselves until Ghosts so the fact there is still a market does not mean a bad thing. Other titles that change relatively little in the industry are rampant throughout. Any sports title, Pokemon, and plenty of Nintendo's big titles are about as similar from iteration to iteration and while some may not come out annually like COD that still doesn't excuse their lack of titanic change any more than Activisons' FPS.

 

[OhNoesBunnies]

Definitely wouldn't call it that. You have your own perks, interests, and dispositions just like your aside comment to what I can tell are the religious beliefs you hold. They don't make you any better or worse than anyone else when making decisions for what media to consume or how we go about partaking in it.

I've talked to plenty of people who think League is actually a giant very transparent cash cow as you described when compared to MOBAs like DOTA. They think the inherent lack of option to pay for the content up front like any other game and access all the content is just the same as other playing to win. As much balance as Riot has put into the game it plain and simple does have its share of characters who are better than others. So working for hours in one game just to get one character without having to pay money is basically how F2P has to work to try and incentivise players to keep on trucking or break down and fork out real life currency.



I always have this conversation with people. Call of Duty has definitely changed with each passing iteration in terms of how the multi-player is structured. COD 4 and it's WWII actual carbon copy (but no less fun) obvious changes aside MW2 tried to tack on too many added things without changing the core and, to me, it is the weakest titles only beaten out by COD 3. Black Ops changed how the class system and progression worked with the economy based COD points system. There you won points after each match that you could use to buy certain pieces of kit or certain attachments for guns. Along with this idea they were able to add gambling style games called wager matches that definitely added to the TDM and CTF formula where you bet said COD points and could either hamper or streamline your advancement depending on how much you put at stake.

MW3 was a safer title, but offered different ways to play with kill streaks. Killstreaks gave you the option of supporting the team with a constant aggregate point system to call in things like body armor or advanced UAVs for the whole team to use. The more common killing killstreaks were present in another tier and the option to not be able to call in any extra supports in favor of earning extra perks for kills was present. Black Ops 2 further changed things by adding a point system to your classes that most threw away structure of your class in favor of a ten point system where you allocated your kit depending on you wanted where you could do away with literally everything if you wanted including perks. Ghosts took systems from MW3 and Black Ops 2 and combined them for familiar, but new gameplay and admittedly has made the least change since MW2, but from what I could play still worked.

COD titles continually outsell themselves until Ghosts so the fact there is still a market does not mean a bad thing. Other titles that change relatively little in the industry are rampant throughout. Any sports title, Pokemon, and plenty of Nintendo's big titles are about as similar from iteration to iteration and while some may not come out annually like COD that still doesn't excuse their lack of titanic change any more than Activisons' FPS.

tl;dr, You're defending Call of Duty changes without realizing a lot of the game still stays the same. Each iteration only differs in visual design, not so much as how it plays. Maps are still small, knives still do more damage than bullets, etc. It's an arcade game with a story that continues to describe how amazing and awesome America is.

As for having my own perks and interests, that has nothing to do with the education and experience I have when it comes to the gaming industry. What I said still stands.

 

[Saul]

tl;dr, You're defending Call of Duty changes without realizing a lot of the game still stays the same. Each iteration only differs in visual design, not so much as how it plays. Maps are still small, knives still do more damage than bullets, etc. It's an arcade game with a story that continues to describe how amazing and awesome America is.

As for having my own perks and interests, that has nothing to do with the education and experience I have when it comes to the gaming industry. What I said still stands.

A lot of this can be related to limitations within the platform itself, and not the game. Larger games should be possible in the newer generation systems. We'll see. If you want games of epic scale, play Planetside. As for CoD's stories, they've always been crap. The most current one is predicated on a gross violation of the 1969 Outer Space Treaty, and the rise - of all things - a pan-Hispanic nation? At least they recognized there is no country in the world capable of challenging the US Navy, but once again they failed to do any research. Firing just ONE shot should have sent that satellite out of orbit - have they not heard of Newton's Third Law? Once again, China and Japan, the number 2 and 3 economies in the world respectively, and both almost completely independent of oil, are sidelined in favor of some mythical enemy. God forbid the Mexicans cross the border.

 

[Blaxican]

I've always wondered why Call of Duty gets so much flack for its stagnant gameplay. It's almost as if people have never heard of Nintendo. Aside from smoother controls and graphics, how different are Mario games now from 20 years ago? Zelda? Pokemon? Hell, how different is Final Fantasy? There's a new coat of paint and some new gimmicky "combo" system in every game, but the core gameplay has remained fundamentally the same over all these decades.

They're called franchises. It's kind of expected for the core gameplay that made the game popular in the first place to remain the same. If Halo 5 was turned into a choice-based interactive cover-shooter like The Last of Us or Mass Effect, people would bitch even harder than they do about the series' stagnant gameplay now, and that goes for most series. There's only so much evolution a title can go through before it is no longer apart of that series.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

tl;dr, You're defending Call of Duty changes without realizing a lot of the game still stays the same. Each iteration only differs in visual design, not so much as how it plays. Maps are still small, knives still do more damage than bullets, etc. It's an arcade game with a story that continues to describe how amazing and awesome America is.

I just told you how it changed how the game was played. Maps are small because that's the play type. that's like saying Counter-Strike has too small of maps or Rainbow Six. Knives do more damage, but are more difficult to get kills with. It's an arcade game! You hit the nail on the head! Don't want to play an arcade shooter? Cool. There are plenty of titles with varying realism v. arcadey spectrum leanings. Don't like the FPS market in general? That's cool too. It's a bit oversaturated in my opinion but you know what you do? You pick yourself up some nice fighting game, maybe a little RPG action, and you put yourself by that fireplace as you play and enjoy the game you paid for because its style and genre appealed to you enough that you said "HEY! I wanna play dat shit."

Talking about how awesome America is? Well to go through from COD 4-Ghosts.

COD 4- You play as British SAS and American Force Recon. Force Recon soldier dies and the British characters end up doing the bulk of the work.

WAW- You play as an American Marine Raider and a Russian Soldier. Both end up doing spectacular things on their respective fronts.

MW2- You play as a US Army Ranger who dies, another US Army Ranger who fights on US soil, and as the returning British characters from COD 4 who receive all the fanfare and attention

Black Ops- You exclusively play as an American, but a black ops soldier doing seedy and much less "noble" things. Hardly screams MMMMMMMMMERICA!

MW3- Again. you play as those good ol' British blokes from COD 4 (and two Russians!) who end up saving the day and again getting all the attention and fanfare.

Black Ops 2- Again exclusively American, but also again it is a very character driven story where the fact that you are working for an American agency is hardly ever seen as some eagle riding, firework eating patriot.

Ghosts- America got its ass whupped by a United South America and largely just doesn't exist anymore. Any pride or chest beating comes from the militia and the Ghosts group. Nobody singing the national anthem as they impale people with a flag.

As for having my own perks and interests, that has nothing to do with the education and experience I have when it comes to the gaming industry. What I said still stands.

Your education does not equal some sort of safety harness you can strap on to rise above what you see as some sort of deluge of idiots playing games you don't like just because of their genre or how you consume them. You are effectively pointing out that arcadey shooters and F2P model are either inherently broke or just not worth anyone's time. What you said can still stand all it wants. As opinion. Definitely not veritable facts.

End of the day Assault Squadron may suck. No worry. You can make the informed decision not to play it. But does it make everything else like it bad? The Elder Scrolls Online will probably be bad. Better stop making MMOs. Shit, Call of Duty is just the same thing time and time again with only little changes! Well, better stop making shooters! Or have titles that keep core game mechanics over the time that the series goes on providing a familiar way to play a game and doesn't need to be changed. Better get that Pokemons out of the way. Movement keys/sticks to get around? Pfffffft! This game did that last year. Let's make the pokeball throw by filing your tax returns. INNOVATION!

 

[OhNoesBunnies]

I just told you how it changed how the game was played. Maps are small because that's the play type. that's like saying Counter-Strike has too small of maps or Rainbow Six. Knives do more damage, but are more difficult to get kills with. It's an arcade game! You hit the nail on the head! Don't want to play an arcade shooter? Cool. There are plenty of titles with varying realism v. arcadey spectrum leanings. Don't like the FPS market in general? That's cool too. It's a bit oversaturated in my opinion but you know what you do? You pick yourself up some nice fighting game, maybe a little RPG action, and you put yourself by that fireplace as you play and enjoy the game you paid for because its style and genre appealed to you enough that you said "HEY! I wanna play dat shit."

Talking about how awesome America is? Well to go through from COD 4-Ghosts.

COD 4- You play as British SAS and American Force Recon. Force Recon soldier dies and the British characters end up doing the bulk of the work.

WAW- You play as an American Marine Raider and a Russian Soldier. Both end up doing spectacular things on their respective fronts.

MW2- You play as a US Army Ranger who dies, another US Army Ranger who fights on US soil, and as the returning British characters from COD 4 who receive all the fanfare and attention

Black Ops- You exclusively play as an American, but a black ops soldier doing seedy and much less "noble" things. Hardly screams MMMMMMMMMERICA!

MW3- Again. you play as those good ol' British blokes from COD 4 (and two Russians!) who end up saving the day and again getting all the attention and fanfare.

Black Ops 2- Again exclusively American, but also again it is a very character driven story where the fact that you are working for an American agency is hardly ever seen as some eagle riding, firework eating patriot.

Ghosts- America got its ass whupped by a United South America and largely just doesn't exist anymore. Any pride or chest beating comes from the militia and the Ghosts group. Nobody singing the national anthem as they impale people with a flag.



Your education does not equal some sort of safety harness you can strap on to rise above what you see as some sort of deluge of idiots playing games you don't like just because of their genre or how you consume them. You are effectively pointing out that arcadey shooters and F2P model are either inherently broke or just not worth anyone's time. What you said can still stand all it wants. As opinion. Definitely not veritable facts.

End of the day Assault Squadron may suck. No worry. You can make the informed decision not to play it. But does it make everything else like it bad? The Elder Scrolls Online will probably be bad. Better stop making MMOs. Shit, Call of Duty is just the same thing time and time again with only little changes! Well, better stop making shooters! Or have titles that keep core game mechanics over the time that the series goes on providing a familiar way to play a game and doesn't need to be changed. Better get that Pokemons out of the way. Movement keys/sticks to get around? Pfffffft! This game did that last year. Let's make the pokeball throw by filing your tax returns. INNOVATION!

Since you're still not getting my point on why Call of Duty is a plague on the games industry and the wallet as a whole...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E82ZkHTiVU

Note, this stands for in-game models etc as well. I'm not talking about story here, kitten. Assets are reused from older games, there's barely anything new in every iteration since 4. I'm not talking about the engine here, I'm talking about the effort put into the work during a two year cycle (which is minimal since they never change engines anyway).

No, CoD Ghosts does NOT use a new engine, they've admitted this on multiple occasions, it's tweaked etc. Sorry if you're a fan, but that's the truth.

 

[Genkaku]

We went from complaining how Free to play is bad to complaining about CoD. Interesting....

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Since you're still not getting my point on why Call of Duty is a plague on the games industry and the wallet as a whole...

It seems our discussion has gone completely to the merits (or demerits in your side) of COD at this point so this will be my last post in regards to COD as this is a thread for the Attack Squadron game or the F2P market model that we were originally discussing. Feel free of course to still reply to me and have the last word.

What was your point exactly? You said the game played the same with each iteration. I said how the multiplayer fundamentally changed how you went about playing it while of course keeping some core mechanics because that is fundamentally what the game is. There are only so many mechanics to go around in the FPS genre at this point for a straight up shooter either simulation side akin to ARMA and the arcadey side like Counter-Strike. Cover mechanics, gunplay, and general movement stuff can only take your game so far and if we are going to call out COD for not redesigning the wheel then you have to tear down the entire FPS market as a whole. Which like I said I'd have to agree seeing as over saturated the market is and it makes sense. Quick, easy fun that is easy to understand for players and it pays off as people buy it.

You said you didn't like COD because story wise it was all about America tooting its horn, or at least that is what I understood, and even if it wasn't the case there are easily just as many if not more international characters (who also have a lot more focus) as compared to those hailing from the USA (past, present, future, and defunct).

Plague on the industry? Hardly. It has done well to push gaming into the mainstream and attract players from all walks of life. Sounds silly and transcendental but it can be a common game that people play together. Also Activision does things like this with the brand http://www.callofdutyendowment.org/ which to me is awesome thing to do with just how much coverage and money they get from the popularity of their title.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E82ZkHTiVU

Note, this stands for in-game models etc as well. I'm not talking about story here, kitten. Assets are reused from older games, there's barely anything new in every iteration since 4. I'm not talking about the engine here, I'm talking about the effort put into the work during a two year cycle (which is minimal since they never change engines anyway).

No, CoD Ghosts does NOT use a new engine, they've admitted this on multiple occasions, it's tweaked etc. Sorry if you're a fan, but that's the truth.

OH GEEZ! HOW COULD THEY! MY TRUST! THE BETRAYEL! THE- I know. It's not that big of a deal, honestly. You don't need to destroy everything and start from scratch each time you start a new game. Using old assets and graphics engine isn't new or terribly old tradition. The engine works just fine and while they aren't expanding on it monumentally they make tweaks and additions to it just how WoW is working off the same engine since launch and comparing that to the current iteration definitely shows a marked change as well. The COD game style doesn't demand too much hardware anyways. Largest game is 18v18 or so at most for one game mode in multiplayer? That isn't too demanding for a close quarters twitch shooter.

The engine is currently in its 6th iteration and here is a list of some of the larger tweaks they make from game to game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IW_Engine

As for that clip specifically that is really the only time that has happened aside maybe some things such as reload animation or combat stuff that doesn't have quite a focus and, again, doesn't require them to redo all those animations over and over again when in actuality a lot of firearms in real life are very damn similar (if of course not just outright keeping guns which would be a weird gripe) and would look/reload/use the same attachments from game to game. Not going to fault them for taking something they already made and repurposing it. Live action television shows and movies do it all of the time as well as some cartoons when trying to shave the budget.

I'll make the same argument for that clip as I would certain animations and models. There are only so many ways to reload an AK-47, have two dudes carry another person, or make any one combat rig/weapon/attachment look. I see where it can be considered lazy, but I also posit that it really isn't necessary to create something new there.

When you play a game the assets and the graphical are a means of conveyance. They present an auditory and visual medium for you to understand and interact with the game. Mechanics are what you play. How you control and what the game does (while in code part of how the engine acts) is basically what the game is. Looks can do numbers to immerse you (not a fan of graphic awe myself, but that isn't this conversation) but at the end of the day a pretty game that plays shit isn't a good game compared to solid gameplay that may look jaggy. Your mileage obviously varies when it comes to COD considering what side of this discussion the two of us find one another on. It's a genre that obviously isn't your cup of tea or perhaps you just aren't a fan of the offering COD has in the genre. A valid opinion I would not contest. It's not for everybody and in no way am I going to fault someone for turning their gaze somewhere else.

I just think the arguments you levy against COD, from what I can see, are either unfair (America focus and the game not changing) or ultimately not a wholly informed statement (IW Engine changing per iteration) per the game, but that gets into the whole mess of genre liking too and I am not going to assume what you like.

End of the day, to summarize, Call of Duty is a monumentally successful title and with that success the company has been allowed to do some pretty damn nice things. It's hard to call it a plague on the industry as COD is more of a symptom rather than the actually disease itself, but that depends on your diagnosis. Is casual gaming the problem you are ultimately having? Perhaps FPS market becoming too bloated? COD is not the root of all evil in the gaming industry and nor is it "hurting" it. My parting advice is what I think I have said in every post so far and what you have said as well (We agree on something, Bunny!) is that there is a demographic here and that you are definitely not being targeted by the title and as an informed consumer and adult (not sure of your age so I will give you the benefit of the doubt) you don't have to purchase and nor should you purchase Call of Duty.

 

[Jacano]

So did anyone else sign up for the beta?

 

[Intratec]

Avoiding it myself for the time being. I'd rather wait and see what comes of it after a few months before making any moves other than observing.

 

[Genkaku]

I signed up but not expecting anything. My expectations are kinda low though since actual full space sim doesn't see like a genre many companies are exploring

 

[Lavi]

I signed up, though I don't feel at all excited about it, since it came out of nowhere.

 

[Cortan]

Welp, this game just got canned:

https://www.facebook.com/starwarsattacksquadrons/posts/693178480749136

 

[Lavi]

I gave it a go while it was in beta and the gameplay just didn't feel like it had any direction. I only played a team deathmatch equivalent and even then it was hard to tell what was going on. I couldn't find any enjoyment in playing it, so not sad about it getting killed off.