SPOILER THREAD: The Last Jedi

[Dakota]

Canto Bight could've been really interesting, but the execution of that whole plotline in relation to the rest of the film made it stand out to me, and not exactly in a good way. It may have been just me, considering we were transitioning to Finn and Rose searching for a codebreaker in between the scenes of Luke and Rey and all that emotional weight on Ahch-To. The latter really drew me in, Finn and Rose's story didn't. And just when I was getting really immersed in the mystery behind the "new" Luke Skywalker and Rey's training, we were back on Canto Bight, in the middle of looked like the Chocobo races from Final Fantasy. The film needed that kind of emotional levity but the way it was executed made moving back and forth between them jarring, and just comparing the content of each, I wanted to stay with Luke and Rey. A lot of really necessary points to bring up (the war profiteering, the children) but it just needed to be handled a bit better.

I like Luke in this film too, and the thing I think the writers got right about him was that Luke was never a "perfect" Jedi to begin with. Entering Jabba's Palace in ROTJ he uses the Force to choke two guards out before trying to straight up murder Jabba with a blaster when the negotiations break down. He was never going to be like Obi-Wan or Yoda, and that he would take such a drastically different path into old age not only made a lot of sense but it was also great for his arc.

 

[Nor'baal]

As Obi-Wan Kenobi said, there are alternatives to fighting. That's what Luke embodied in the final battle. It's all tied together.

I like this. It's nice to see the movies showing this off more, much like some of the comics and books do.

As an addition to the above post - I personally think the Canto bit was the best part of the movie, and showed how the war we see at a high level, effects ordinary people.

 

[MattBloggs]

@Nor'baal
Interesting, you're the first person that I've heard say that. What did you think of the Canto stories collection? Personally, I wouldn't read it, but I was just curious.

(Canto Bight: Journey to Star Wars: The Last Jedi)

 

[KaiserMelech]

 

[AutoFox]

...is it me or does Luke look like he wants brains in that last pic?

 

[SlipLihte]

I can honestly say I think this is one of the most well made Star Wars movies - I wish the prequel trilogy had gotten this treatment, I think it would have made for an amazing story.

Unfortunately, I couldn't help but feel depressed after this movie. As well as it was made, I'm not sure whether this is the story I wanted to see. About two-thirds through, when R2 shows look the hologram message that originally got him going on his adventure, I couldn't help but feel that everything that had happened in the OT had been for naught. Luke ended up a failure hiding on an island. A new """"""""Empire"""""""" takes power despite Leia's efforts. Han and Leia split up, Han loses the Falcon. None of them feel at all like the matured versions (even if they would have been a bit war wary) of the originals.

I guess I just have too much of a hero worship for the OT trio, especially Luke, and seeing the way they turned out was a disappointment. Ultimately, as with the issues with Rey's parents, I think I had expectations about how my childhood heroes would turn out. Judging by the split in opinion on TLJ, it might have been safer for them to have made the story even further in the future.

But, ultimately, I guess I understand why these stories were told in this way, and I definitely don't think Rian Johnson deserves so much flak for making what is ultimately a very good Star Wars movie.

And yes, I did think that looked more like possessed Luke...

 

[KaiserMelech]

My main issue with the Disney handling is just how much importance they put in the books and comics. I read Leia: Princess of Alderaan after I saw the movie, and it honestly would have added so much to the story if I had read it before. It pretty much gave us all the backstory on Admiral Holdo. In the same vein, Phasma and the comics really point out why Captain Phasma is such a dangerous and powerful character, while the movies do absolutely nothing to show why she belongs at the top. If you plan on reading the books in rapid succession, you're fine, but if you're the casual fan who just wants to see the movies, I can see where a lot of the negative criticism comes from.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I don't think any of the books or comics are necessary. Most casual fans aren't going to care that much about Admiral Holdo's backstory with Leia or why Phasma is a captain in the First Order. The same way that no one really cares what Hux's backstory is. The benefit to the novels and comics is that they're not necessary but, if you choose to read them, they can enhance your viewing of the films.

 

[RVFVS]

Maybe. But I'm betting that Snoke will be given a comic mini series or a book like Phasma explaining who he is. I consider that to be necessary when it comes to Snoke. He created the first order, had a cult like following and had immense power in the force. Who is he?

Buy this book and we'll explain!

 

[Brandon Rhea]

It's necessary if you feel the need to know what his backstory is. The movie didn't need to get into that. Whether you want to know is of course up to you.

 

[KaiserMelech]

Buy this book and we'll explain!

Personally I just wait for them to show up at the library.

 

[RVFVS]

I mean I suppose you have to view him the same way as the Emperor in the OT. No body really knew anything about him then he was just a big bad force wizard.

Despite that, I still feel that Snoke deserved some form of exposition. Even just a quick line about how he used to be a inquisitor or something. He is just too powerful and to be honest, this isn't the OT its the third trilogy and we have mountains of lore and world building, where before there had been none. Snoke needed an explanation. He needed some form of, "Aha thats how he was that way." And while I won't dare speak for all Star War fans I can say everyone I personally know whose seen the movie agrees.

I actually agree with Snoke dying and thought it was a good move. Kylo is a far more compelling and deep character and I am amazed with Adam Driver and what hes done. I am a bit sad at the destruction of the mask and was hoping for a scene near the end where he essentially donned the mask in earnest, casting the name Ben Solo aside and truly becoming Kylo Ren.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The difficult thing about that is, how do you do it in a way that feels natural?

Let's say he was an Inquisitor. If he was speaking to Kylo Ren, such as when they were talking about Darth Vader, imagine this line of dialogue: "When I was an Inquisitor, I hunted down the last Jedi of their time under Lord Vader's command. I thought you would be the new Vader."

When writing dialogue, you have to consider your main characters. And in that moment, Kylo was the main character. The second sentence in that line of dialogue is what matters to Kylo's story. It's what shames him and gets Kylo to smash his own helmet in the next scene. But if that first line of dialogue was there too, the natural internal monologue Kylo would have is "Why is he telling me his biography? I already know this."

The other opportunity would have been to do it when Rey was there. For Rey's story, that information is utterly irrelevant. Adding in any dialogue like that would have ground the scene to a halt.

Snoke was never going to appear in a scene without Kylo, Rey, or Hux because Snoke was only ever a foil for those characters. So anything Snoke says has to be about or relevant to those three.

If someone else had told Rey, it still would've been weird because Rey really doesn't care.

The only way to do it would be to give Snoke more of a story in general and have his identity be some big mysterious part of the plot that the characters have to figure out, but that just doesn't matter to the story of Rey or Kylo - our main characters.

 

[RVFVS]

I see what your saying but Snoke spoke about Vader at least twice when he was with Kylo and I believe there would have been a way to work in some form of background.

The issue is this, Han and Leia all know who Snoke is and where he came from. They speak about him in TFA as though he is known to them and I believe Luke does in this movie.

Kylo knows who Snoke is, obviously, and we still don't know WHAT influence Snoke used to directly cause his turn. Was it like Palpatine or more ham fisted?

Or, in keeping with the director's idea that this movie is about the nobody's of the galaxy then explain that! Have a piece of dialogue offer that up. Would it be necessarily perfect? No, but this is Star Wars and the dialogue has never been its main draw. They needed to give us, the fans, some kind of answer. I can accept Rey's parentage, Phasma's lack of doing next to anything (who is a obviously now just around to sell toys) and even the seemingly mundane things such as, who are the Knights of Ren? Like really who are they? They didn't mention the Sith in the OT and as such they didn't need to explain but we get all these new groups and factions and peoples and yet...no explanation.

And while I'm on a mini-rant why didn't they do something different with the New Republic? So what the main governing body is dead so...thats it? New Empire? No resistance or anything? No! I can't believe that its ridiculous. In the OT when the Empire began its fall at the end of ROJ there were crowds celebrating on worlds that were still being patrolled by imperial garrisons! How is it that this same populace that has now lived under a free, if potentially corrupt and inefficient, Republic for three decades just lies down and accepts the rule of the First Order who are at best a terrorist state.

Once again, off topic but there were just so many missed opportunities with this movie. It wasn't...bad...that's not the word. It was disappointing. Say what you want about the prequels but they built a world around the movie. This movie sacrifices the world for the sake of the plot and I don't like it.

Edit: And in my rant I forgot the first point. If Kylo knows who or what Snoke is as a main character then that directly affects his background with him and, therefore, we should have at least a slight grasp on it to properly understand. We don't even have a proper concept of the relationship between the two.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I don't think fans who misread and overhyped a character's importance are necessarily entitled to know an answer or need to be told one.

 

[RVFVS]

Maybe not but a lot of us wanted one and the divided opinion on this movie shows that.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

A Star Wars movie that gives everyone what they want would be a really bad Star Wars movie, so I'm glad not everyone's fan fiction came true.

 

[RVFVS]

Ya, I don’t know. Maybe your right but this movie felt off to me. For the reasons I stated before and several others.

Like what about when Leia went all superman when the bridge got blown up? I mean I don’t know about you but I physically cringed.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

The cinematography of it felt a bit off but I had no problem with the idea or intent of the moment. It's a common misconception that you die instantly in space, so it was totally plausible for her to still be alive (assuming we even want to drop actual science into Star Wars). With the added benefit of the Force, there was nothing strange to me about her using the Force to pull herself back into the ship.

 

[RVFVS]

Even though we had never been given any notion that she had the ability to actually use force powers? She could feel the force and had sensitivity but she had never manifested that into anything that could be seen.

I suppose the argument could be made that under stress the force is able to flow through one more easily than in a normal situation.