Scottish Independence?

[Oncaro]

So, it appears that Scotland is going to be voting on whether or not to remain within the United Kingdom, possibly ending about three hundred years of unity within the UK. This has honestly come as a shock to me, and personally I'm rather excited; We're living in a historic moment, and this is I think the first such situation in my lifetime, at least that I was aware of.

If Scotland does wind up voting for independence, it'll have quite an effect on international politics and economic situations, at least in the West. So what do you guys think about this? Is Scotland going for indepence a good or bad thing in your eyes? Discuss.

 

[Fat Possum]

I have a friend who went to school in Scotland for a bit and is a pretty big proponent of independence.

I'm a little skeptical, but being a 'Murican with relatively limited information, I think my slight lean towards unification are natural given my lack of knowledge on the situation. It's definitely interesting, and I think the future of an independent Scotland is unfortunately tied to hypothetical gas revenue and Orkney and Shetland's response, but it could work out great for the Scots. Definitely has massive ramifications for the West and I'm curious how other areas like Quebec will react, regardless of the Scottish outcome.

 

[Jaime]

I am not really caught up on Western Europe's politics or economics, but I would say it's a good thing. Maybe not for the UK, but for independence-seekers.

Go Scotland. \o/

But then again, it may be somewhat bad for the seceding Scotland. I have no doubt that they can handle themselves effectively, but as their own government outside of the UK(hypothetically), I don't know how they'll fare.

 

[Empress]

Im born and raised in scotland ( portree area of skye to be exact)

I had a great fix personally....

I moved and became a yank

 

[Rashida Marrow]

Independence is both a great cause and a great responsibility. I don't know the details of this break away from the UK, I'm not much of an educated man on the political standing of the rest of the world, but i do believe that them breaking away would be both a victory and a challenge. I look forward to seeing how it plays out

 

[jpchewy01]

I'm in favour of Scottish Independence. Both parties want to make it out to be a question of security and certainty but no one said that freedom was easy. If there's anything that Scotland has learned after all this time is that freedom is hard won and well deserved.

 

[Lavi]

I heard that a reason for the independence movement is that the Scottish don't feel that they are adequately represented in the UK. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but it sounds reasonable. I don't really have an opinion on it overall, but it'll be interesting if the vote passes.

 

[Kaeb]

I guess I'm in favour of it.

 

[StandbyRanger]

I'm all for it. This is a great piece of history we are witnessing.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

I'm opposed because if Scotland secedes then the UK has to change its flag and that's not right.

 

[Oreus]

I'm pretty heavily in favor of independence.

 

[Tank]

King George never would have stood for this. What if Scotland becomes the next 'Murica? First they secede from England, then they kick the native Irish off their land and set up reservations for them in Spain. Next they'll be buying Greenland from Russia and getting rich of Greenland gold. Two hundred years from now we'll be looking at a Scottish nation that spans all of Western Europe and trying to set up puppet states in the middle east. This ends now.

Vote NO.

That being said, my honest opinion: Eh. Let them eat cake.

 

[Pureblood-Sin]

Whatever will be, will be. There's no going back once the vote is cast.

 

[Loco]

I support the right to self determination, for better or worse.

 

[Hassan]

.....:shock:

 

[Naruto667]

well I did my vote awhile ago..and yeah tbh I have my preference on what outcome I prefer


off topic moment: :notinterested: I see we have new emotes...but yeah I guess i'll find out the vote's results tomorrow

 

[BLADE]

I've always been an unabashed Scotophile; when I was studying at Cambridge, every weekend my friends and I would load into an old Fiat jalopy (ah the glories of European materialism, comrades) and take the A9 up to the Highlands. We'd stop in places like Blackfriars, and De Bruce's and unironically enjoy Burns Night as well as really, really cheap beer (and occasionally harder stuff, sure.)

Emotionally, what I suppose I am saying is that I am rather fond of the idea of an independent Scotland. I am an American Jew, of course, with no stake in it, other than a disdain for Anglophilic mythopeia, and British Unionism.

Therefore, it falls to me to also elucidate what some of the material matters work out to here.

They are, in relative order of importance:

Currency: Scotland would need to set its currency --a dinar, pound, dollar, what have you-- to either the Sterling or some other major currency. Setting it to the sterling would be its most likely move, and would preclude the independence of any Scottish central bank, which would needs be be subservient to the City/LIBOR regime. Even so, this would be a Scotland more financially independent --so more easily able to finance its own projects-- than one still inside the Union. Overall, this would be a wash to marginal net plus.

Barnett versus North Sea Oil: Given Scots' general tendre for social democracy, the level of funding Scotland would be able to levy for health, education, etc. spending would likely be about the same, if slightly higher in an independent Scottish state. Scotland is benefited by the Barnett Metric --disproportionately so, as English nationalists would argue-- but has also been historically violated by Westminster when it comes to its North Sea oil deposits, which contain billions and billions in potential revenue. Again. A wash.

Security: Sans a union, Scotland would be freer to maintain its own foreign policy, and thus be freer of potential blowback from British interventionism, as well as less encumbered by massive (relatively speaking) defense spending. Unionists argue that Scotland would be less influential in the world stage by not partaking in proxy of a UN Security Council seat, as well as attendant sinecures at the G-7 inter alia. This I will leave to you all to settle.

And that's it. I've followed this campaign closely since its start, and there's been more heat than light, so to speak, on material matters.

Overall though I would say that the Better Together's (No) campaign has been negative and fanciful --though certainly Yes has its problems as well. From a philosophical and political standpoint, there is no reason why a discrete culture and nation-polity should not have its self-determination.

*Insert Braveheart Quote Here*

 

[Vulpes]

Scotland remains in the Union.


/thread

 

[Oncaro]

So I just checked out the results for the referendum.

The majority voted 55 percent in favor for staying within the UK, with those voting for independence turning out at 44 percent. Needless to say this is a pretty big relief to the British government, which has promised to expand the powers of Scotland, Wales, and Northen Ireland in the wake of this vote.

Edit: Crap, got pre-empted.

But hey,

/thread

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Expanding Scotland's ability to govern itself within the Union may actually end up leading to Scottish independence anyway. If Scotland becomes more and more self-governing, as Cameron seems to be suggesting they will be, then Scottish MPs in Parliament are going to be voting on legislation that effectively has nothing to do with their constituencies. The Torys in particularly are not going to be satisfied with that, and we may actually end up seeing a push from the other members of the Union to make Scotland independent.