Lightsabers, To Be or not to Be.

[Xyrael]

So, I am stuck at a quandry after considering the physics of the Lightsaber, and I want the communities opinion. [ST]I know it's been previously ruled that Force Lightning is electricity not the Force,[/ST] so has there been a ruling on this?

I will show points of physics, and then list places where this becomes an issue.
First: Mass and weight are different. An object with mass can be weightless (though technically weight is defined by gravity and gravitational pull is equivalent to the objects mass...).
Second: An object requires mass in order to be affected by simple principles of physics, namely: Force = mass * acceleration of the body. Simply put, a massless object can not affect motion in any other object.
Third: The lightsaber is poorly defined in two separate locations of the wikia as being both massless and weightless, here:

A lightsaber blade was a mass-less form that neither radiated heat nor expended energy until it came into contact with something solid.

Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield, and it was extremely difficult...

Note, this second quote is actually wrong. Plasma has both weight and mass, as it consists of ionized particles.

In physics and chemistry, plasma is a state of matter similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionized. Heating a gas may ionize its molecules or atoms (reduce or increase the number of electrons in them), thus turning it into a plasma, which contains charged particles: positive ions and negative electrons or ions.

Now, where exactly are my issues arising?
1. A massless object can not effect motion on another. Thus, two lightsabers would be unable to stop each other if there existed no masses, such as particles, to effect a stop. Imagine swinging two laser pens past each other, what force is there to stop them?

2. A massless object would be unable to transmit the force of a blow. Thus a strong man strikes a puny man with a massless object, the massless object would not transmit the force of the more powerful man. In fact, the puny man could block the blow for forever with little effort beyond the fatigue of his arms holding the hilt (assuming the two massless objects somehow had the property of resisting each other).

3. There are several inconsistencies in canon, namely from episode 6, which suggest the blade itself does in fact have mass. During the duel between Luke and Vader, Luke bashes with brute force through the defenses of Vader, forcing Vader's guard down and dismembering his hand. A massless object would be unable to bash through another massless object, as I've previously stated. Barring George Lucas' revealing some wisdom on physics, I feel this is the highest authority in canon.

Thus I postulate that a lightsaber, as defined as such:

The weapon consisted of a blade of pure plasma emitted from the hilt and suspended in a force containment field.

does in fact have mass, defined as ionized electrons, which are for all intents and purposes of negligible weight but effect a barrier through which other lightsabers can not pass (because of polarized ions resisting or what not) and superheated ions releasng heat trapped in the force containment field is capable of frying anything it comes in contact with.

Thus, if a lightsaber indeed has mass, then a sword fighter could in fact add inertia to a blow through actions such as pivoting their waist before striking (similar to swinging a baseball bat) and thus two-handed strikes would indeed be more powerful than one handed ones.

As I see it, the current wookiepedia definitions can be chalked up to pop culture ignorance and the assumption that mass = weight. Lacking mass, I am entirely confused as to how lightsaber combat works according to physics, though I supposed we could always dismiss it as "it just does". But then we're still at the quandary that a person with a saber held in only his offhand could easily block a two handed, full force strike from another swordsman, something that would be entirely impossible with a real weapon.

TL;DR: Scifi definitions are often built around simplicity, but when put into effect by real people who add complexity to the issue, you're bound to find problems.

 

[Green Ranger]

Well seeing as Star Wars is space opera and not science fiction, focusing on the science behind the story is kind of pointless anyway.

 

[Xyrael]

I know, but entertain me. I mean we could also do what Star Trek did with warp drives and say that "in this scenario there exists a separate paradigm for understanding the physics, and this works in that paradigm"

 

[Green Ranger]

Well, to begin with, I dont get the mention of Force lightning to negin with...nor do I get where the 'ruling' regarding that came from, but thats neither here nor there.

 

[Xyrael]

I had "heard" that there had been a ruling on it some time ago, I can lurk around some threads, I think in the suggestion area, where it had been said. I don't know and I won't press the subject because I may very well be wrong on that.

 

[Green Ranger]

i just dont get why it was brought up at all or its relevance to the rest of the thread.

 

[Xyrael]

I'm not sure, sometimes I make logical leaps. That's my fault, and I'll remove it (cross out) from the OP since it's obviously detracting from the main point which was a massless object cannot effect change. There's typically metaphysical debates around it all, such as how a soul can motivate a body to do things when it has no mass, etc. The Force is justified by the midichlorians providing access to it.

I brought it up because, if I wanted to do something such as use a powerful two handed strike against a person using one hand to defense, I should be able to break said defense with normal physics applied. But with massless objects, he could easily block, and the use of a two handed weapon would be entirely inferior.

But using ordinary physics to define a weapon which can deflect massless energy such as laser bolts (which I'd also suggest were bolts of ionized gas ignited by a beam of light, such as the TL-1 Laser Rifle design DARPA worked on) or lightsabers, as well as be sort circuited by water, is just silly. I get at some point you have to accept that this is Science-Fantasy and not Science Fiction, I just wondered how momentum and force were transmitted through massless objects. Understanding the mechanics of something helps me describe how they work practically.