How to make PVP work

[Aurek]

I wouldn't call myself an experienced roleplayer or writer, but I've managed to enjoy myself so far on this site.

One thing I don't enjoy, however, (and having read through the roleplaying-help subforum, I get the impression I'm not the only one) is PVP. Not because of the risk it entails but because of it's nature. In an environment where people are already trying to outwrite each other or make their character appear more badass than the other, PVP is more an unrealistic display of who's stronger / faster / cooler etc, than what it should be, which is an opportunity to build upon two characters in a setting that has high stakes for both parties.

I've partaken in several PVP threads on this site and from what I've found, winning has less to do with your characters stats, abilities, and writing prowess than it does the writers conviction to make their character come out on top. To the point where you're just throwing punches but they keep being blocked. And if by chance they do land, they have little effect on the opponent. And it comes to the point where you just have two characters fighting this unending, long winded battle, trying to outwrite each other. And I don't know about you, but I don't think that's what PVP should be.

What I'm suggesting? Put stats to use. Create a system where, upon creating your character you have a total number of points to assign to each of the skills provided. (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom, etc) That way, every character would have realistic strengths and weaknesses without being overpowered.

As before, these skills would be honed through classes and training seasions. But unlike before, training skills would take multiple sessions and threads so that people aren't just maxing out their characters skillsets. There's many ways this could be done -- perhaps a level system?

Anyway, when it comes to actual combat, both PVNPC and PVP, these skills would dictate the course of the battle and who comes out on top -- free of the threat of godmode.

Just a suggestion, of course. I'd love to see something like this implemented.

 

[Gamov]

What I'm suggesting? Put stats to use. Create a system where, upon creating your character you have a total number of points to assign to each of the skills provided. (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom, etc) That way, every character would have realistic strengths and weaknesses without being overpowered.

I'm not entirely sure that would eliminate the problem so much as just... move it in a different direction, so to speak.

If you give people only a handful of points to "spend" on things like Dexterity, Strength, Intelligence, etc., then PvP becomes less about the writing and more about crunching the numbers. Which is what it really shouldn't be about.

In my own personal opinion, PvP only works if you can communicate with your opponent OOCly and come to some agreeable terms to your duel before the first punches are even thrown. There's also something to be said for common sense in all of this, too. It's basic RP 101 that you don't build a character with no flaws and Godlike skills/abilities. It's up to the individual players to create interesting and diverse characters, and to likewise understand their strengths and weaknesses and play to them accordingly in every situation.

i.e. - It doesn't make much sense for me to write a nerdy book worm who doesn't know the first thing about how to properly fire a blaster, then suddenly turn them into the deadliest marksman in the galaxy when the shooting starts.

I really feel that all of the headaches and pains that come along with PvP could simply be avoided if people set out to write a story, or [heaven for bid] have fun with it once in a while, rather than curb stomp other people's characters for the sake of having a kill tally to show off.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Stats are also creatively restricting, and doesn't jive with a freeform setting, so that's why we've resisted doing anything with that over the years. I've been thinking lately, though, about how the new battle system that's been implemented has been working out. In it, there are a limited number of combatants (generally 2v2) rather than lots of people with big armies. There is also a thread deadline; generally, battles now will only last for 2-3 weeks. If the players haven't completed the thread at the end of that time, then the outcome is ruled on by an admin.

On its face, you wouldn't think that would accomplish anything. You'd think it would just continue the same problems with battles and PvPs, just in a shorter amount of time. But weirdly? It worked. Battles have been more or less smooth over the last few months, and relatively headache free. I'm not totally sure why yet, but I have to wonder if that sort of system, with the time constraints that force people to just get to the point, could work in smaller-scale PvP settings as well.

 

[Green Ranger]

I'm not entirely sure that would eliminate the problem so much as just... move it in a different direction, so to speak.

If you give people only a handful of points to "spend" on things like Dexterity, Strength, Intelligence, etc., then PvP becomes less about the writing and more about crunching the numbers. Which is what it really shouldn't be about.

In my own personal opinion, PvP only works if you can communicate with your opponent OOCly and come to some agreeable terms to your duel before the first punches are even thrown. There's also something to be said for common sense in all of this, too. It's basic RP 101 that you don't build a character with no flaws and Godlike skills/abilities. It's up to the individual players to create interesting and diverse characters, and to likewise understand their strengths and weaknesses and play to them accordingly in every situation.

i.e. - It doesn't make much sense for me to write a nerdy book worm who doesn't know the first thing about how to properly fire a blaster, then suddenly turn them into the deadliest marksman in the galaxy when the shooting starts.

I really feel that all of the headaches and pains that come along with PvP could simply be avoided if people set out to write a story, or [heaven for bid] have fun with it once in a while, rather than curb stomp other people's characters for the sake of having a kill tally to show off.

Yes and no. We've done pre-determined battles before and honestly, you can't have them as the status quo - if a player knows they're going to lose from the offset, then they have no motivation to write, and I don't blame them for having that mentality.

I'm not really going to touch on the original point of a stat system, because as has been said, it just turns into number crunching and maths. While there is some validity to that system since obviously it's been a massive part of the role-playing culture for decades, it's never been a path we've really wanted to go down. The site is primarily writing focused, after all, and granted, while writing competetively against another member in freeform is always going to have issues, we'd rather maintain that core aspect of the site than move into hardline game mechanics where possible.

 

[Sapphire Storm]

That's the issue I've had with PvP as well, even in threads where the only thing on the line is winning and no characters are going to be hurt or killed. It's not something unique to this site, though. It's been a problem no matter where I've been roleplaying, and the main reason is because people often care more about winning than they do about writing an interesting and engaging story or encounter. I personally find it not even remotely fun, but I can see why people do. It's an ego thing, mostly, as well as loving a character and not wanting them to die or be injured.

The shorter battle system has been working quite effectively from what I've read so far, so I look forward to test running that myself at some point to see if I can pinpoint why it works so well. If I had to guess I'd say it's probably because people know the thread is on a time limit, so any issues they have they sort out far quicker so they can go back to getting in as many posts as possible in the allotted time.

As for people not allowing their character to be hit or taking barely any damage when hit, that's a tough habit to break and is more of a mentality thing than anything. It also doesn't help when one side tries to have it be more about the story, the struggle and the encounter but the other doesn't, since the one opting into that is likely to just have those intentional weaknesses or potential plot devices exploited by someone who cares more about winning. Having a mentality focused on winning and on making yourself feel good by winning is what seems to encourage it, from what I've seen. I don't think I've had that mentality for years, but then again I've always been more interested in the story perspective, and beginning to DM (dungeon master/game master) games of D&D about 16-18 months ago has really helped in that regard as well, since doing that shows you a different perspective about characters and their deaths. Since all your NPCs are likely going to be slaughtered by the PCs in the game when DMing, you very quickly learn how a character's death/defeat can be an amazing plot device.

All that said, it's also a very difficult thing to learn, especially when you've invested so much into a character and their story already. Losing them always sucks, and so people get into this video game mentality, where the only thing that matters is winning and not writing a good story. I am hopeful that the new battle system and the changes to Force powers and user-created tech will help a lot with that. As it is now, all the video gamey powers available for use encourage people to build their character like they're playing the Witcher or Fallout or some other RPG like that. I would say a good way of fixing it is to encourage a focus on story over winning, but I wouldn't have any idea how to encourage such a thing and I'm sure the admins have considered that strongly for a lot longer than I have.

All I can safely say is I'm excited to see how much things change with regards to PvP between this timeline and the next.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

I will voice my thougts on PvP in a very simple way.

PvP cool, and can be very freaking awesome.

Then it can be very shitty. Why? Exactly for the reasons some have already stated.

PvP should not be player versus player, only.

It should be player versus player, which involves a little ass kicking, but more importantly then just ass kicking.

It should be kicking ass, but with a cool story. Good character development and just funness, all around funness.

Funness everywhere.....

 

[Nor'baal]

One thing to remember is that often being "clever" in a fight can help. Play to your characters strengths but also to the weaknesses of your opponent and be careful who your role playing with.

If it's a "I have force power so I'm better" person then don't enter a thread with them, or make sure your character is prepared to fight a FS and therefore brings flamethrowers, cyro-throwers etc (aka: Things they cannot block of throw back with the force).

It is hard to PvP a FS vs NFS fight, as a lot of the time space magic wins, as it's easier to just say "and then he deflected it".

Make sure to RP well, take damage when you should and politely engage with them OOC if a problem arises.

 

[Law abiding heretic]

One thing to remember is that often being "clever" in a fight can help. Play to your characters strengths but also to the weaknesses of your opponent and be careful who your role playing with.

If it's a "I have force power so I'm better" person then don't enter a thread with them, or make sure your character is prepared to fight a FS and therefore brings flamethrowers, cyro-throwers etc (aka: Things they cannot block of throw back with the force).

It is hard to PvP a FS vs NFS fight, as a lot of the time space magic wins, as it's easier to just say "and then he deflected it".

Make sure to RP well, take damage when you should and politely engage with them OOC if a problem arises.

Sonic blasters FTW