Help me understand the Mandalorian situation, please?

[Django]

You know, Nalla, tooting the Loyalist horn is one thing, but attacking Mars personally is completely uncalled for. That, in turn, makes you look like the immature one. You can argue points without making it personal.

Fair enough, but I was barely tooting the Loyalist horn. My first statement was made more so in jest than anything else. I ignored Horizons post despite, the er, feeling I felt for it, but Mars' only pushed me further. I'm not one to take ignorance lightly and I felt like those two posts were ignorant and disrespectful to the Loyalist.

Maybe I went to far with my reply, my apologies to Mars if I did. I shouldn't have posted whilst upset about something I should probably have ignored entirely.

 

[Mars]

Fair enough, but I was barely tooting the Loyalist horn. My first statement was made more so in jest than anything else. I ignored Horizons post despite, the er, feeling I felt for it, but Mars' only pushed me further. I'm not one to take ignorance lightly and I felt like those two posts were ignorant and disrespectful to the Loyalist.

Maybe I went to far with my reply, my apologies to Mars if I did. I shouldn't have posted whilst upset about something I should probably have ignored entirely.

Not to instigate, but the irony almost hurts.

The Loyalists held a heavily fortified position against the Seperatist assault. I would certainly hope they were able to kill some Seps in the process of attacking, but ultimately they lost rather quickly thanks to inept leadership. The Loyalists in Ice Field were like the French in World War II. Yeah, they didn't lose as fast as Poland, but they weren't exactly all-stars either.

Also, if you have a problem with how I lead, please realize all the work that the Seperatists have put in to what they've done, as opposed to standing and crying about how unfair everything is and how there should be no civil war and how MEAN THOSE DAMN SEPERATISTS ARE FOR WANTING MY CHARACTERS DEAD.

So, yeah, if you'd like complain you're entitled to do so, but really calling out my IC and OOC leadership is rather unnecessary. In fact, the constant complaints about myself and Corden despite just attempting to make the faction kickass again is almost insulting considering the Seperatists are overall far more stable and less factional than the "loyalists" who are fighting for leadership that abandoned them. Also, it seems that the Loyalist side has forgotten that the Seperatists tried to extend peace because it was rather clear who the winner of this war would be....

That's my piece on this, you can respond or not, but I'm done arguing this OOCly. If you'd like to have Titus step to Apollo IC then feel free to challenge my leadership there.

 

[Phil]

I don't regret a single thing I did as Mandalore.

Though I find it amusing Corden has to point out the third Mandalore was a female.

 

[Mars]

I don't regret a single thing I did as Mandalore.

Though I find it amusing Corden has to point out the third Mandalore was a female.

All Johnny did wrong was leave a female in charge :P

 

[Phil]

All Johnny did wrong was leave a female in charge :P

I know your joking, but it was still odd since Corden's post was all serious. It'd be like saying the new Jed Grandmaster is now a man or something. I didn't think gender mattered in Mandalorians, despite what side of the war.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

The second Mandalore promised change, but brought on very little. Many believed he wasn't aggressive enough and that he lacked vision.

To defend myself: All the major factions were in a freeze. That included combat, development of new technologies, territory grabs, and basically anything that would alter the faction as they were all under review.

 

[Orphen]

I know your joking, but it was still odd since Corden's post was all serious. It'd be like saying the new Jed Grandmaster is now a man or something. I didn't think gender mattered in Mandalorians, despite what side of the war.

I think gender could matter to the mandalorians as a female mandalore could be percieved as inherently weak. And therefore an easy challenge. Thus she would have a lot more to prove. And there would be a lot more pressure on her to prove it. It would go from 'youre mandalore i will follow' to a case by case basis. If not just for the fact that alone, they're shorter in stature, have less muscle mass, and are less imposing. Unless of course they're... y'know... not

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/muramasa1p.png/

 

[Kiro]

I think gender could matter to the mandalorians as a female mandalore could be percieved as inherently weak. And therefore an easy challenge. Thus she would have a lot more to prove. And there would be a lot more pressure on her to prove it. It would go from 'youre mandalore i will follow' to a case by case basis. If not just for the fact that alone, they're shorter in stature, have less muscle mass, and are less imposing. Unless of course they're... y'know... not

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/muramasa1p.png/

Ke barjurir gar'ade, jagyc'ade kot'la a dalyc'ade kotla'shya. - "Train your sons to be strong but your daughters to be stronger."

 

[Orphen]

youuu get me!

 

[Django]

The Loyalists held a heavily fortified position against the Seperatist assault. I would certainly hope they were able to kill some Seps in the process of attacking, but ultimately they lost rather quickly thanks to inept leadership. The Loyalists in Ice Field were like the French in World War II. Yeah, they didn't lose as fast as Poland, but they weren't exactly all-stars either.

On the Ice Field? No. Just no. Yes due to poor leadership we lost over parts of the planet, and that left us at a sever disadvantage. Lucius was a great leader, and he and I were working well together countering Nirvana's plans. Even with a fortified position, the Separatist shouldn't have lost so many soldiers and so much equipment.

The fact of the matter is that the Loyalist were at the disadvantage. We didn't have as many men as you, and our equipment wasn't as good as yours. And then you have to factor in the fact that we were caught by surprise. Realistically, the Ice Field should have been the first place to fall but it wasn't. We held our ground strong, and we were even advances.

If Corden hadn't stopped the battle we would have continued dealing blows to the Separatist on the Ice Field. Obviously we were always set to lose, but the way I see it we could have gotten to just about all the Separatist on the Ice Field before we fell ourselves. Look at the Loyalist/Separatist death ratio, it is a pretty easy way to see who was doing the most killing.

Also, if you have a problem with how I lead, please realize all the work that the Seperatists have put in to what they've done, as opposed to standing and crying about how unfair everything is and how there should be no civil war and how MEAN THOSE DAMN SEPERATISTS ARE FOR WANTING MY CHARACTERS DEAD.

Where have I stood around and cried? If you are talking about other Loyalist, well, the simple fact is that they aren't me. I have worked hard to help out the Loyalist, and yes I have supported peace but that doesn't mean I don't think the Civil War was unreasonable.

I can understand why you and Corden would wish to defect and start your own movement in the face of bad leadership that would never listen to your pleas. Although... it could have been handled better. You are apart of the reason why the Mandalorians have went down the toilet, besides completely shitty leadership.

And ICly you are hardly taken action to properly establish the Mandalorians as strong again by almost turning peace talks into a battle... all... by... yourself.

So, yeah, if you'd like complain you're entitled to do so, but really calling out my IC and OOC leadership is rather unnecessary. In fact, the constant complaints about myself and Corden despite just attempting to make the faction kickass again is almost insulting considering the Seperatists are overall far more stable and less factional than the "loyalists" who are fighting for leadership that abandoned them. Also, it seems that the Loyalist side has forgotten that the Seperatists tried to extend peace because it was rather clear who the winner of this war would be....

Refer to my above response for some of your statements here.

Oh, and I never complained about Corden. OOCly and ICly I think he is a very talented leader, and I wouldn't object if he was placed as Mandalore. Would Titus object his rise to power? Probably, but we haven't got there yet so I can't really say.

And I don't fight for Ender or any other of the crappy leaders that we have had in the past. I fight for the betterment of the Mandalorians as a whole. I don't think you should be leader, so I said something about. Have you not seen my previous efforts when it comes to helping out the Mandalorians? Oh wait- you have. You may have forgotten about them, I would suggest you go back and check them out before you put a label on me.

I accept that the Separatist won the Civil War for several reasons, but I don't wish to share them because it would be a waste of my time and you'd probably see it as me "complaining."

That's my piece on this, you can respond or not, but I'm done arguing this OOCly. If you'd like to have Titus step to Apollo IC then feel free to challenge my leadership there.

Yeah have crippled Titus step up against the crazy Apollo? Urm, no. Your wishes to fight is silly. OOCly we aren't Mandalorians. We are people who can use words to settle things. Anyways, that is just my two cents.


EDIT: Please don't take my words about completely shitty leadership to heart old Mandalores, the harsh words were mostly directed to Ender and his failings as Mandalore. I wasn't there when you older Mandalores were leading, so I am ignorant on what you did kind of. Just keep that in mind, and don't hate me!

 

[Horizon]

On the Ice Field? No. Just no. Yes due to poor leadership we lost over parts of the planet, and that left us at a sever disadvantage. Lucius was a great leader, and he and I were working well together countering Nirvana's plans. Even with a fortified position, the Separatist shouldn't have lost so many soldiers and so much equipment.The fact of the matter is that the Loyalist were at the disadvantage. We didn't have as many men as you, and our equipment wasn't as good as yours. And then you have to factor in the fact that we were caught by surprise. Realistically, the Ice Field should have been the first place to fall but it wasn't. We held our ground strong, and we were even advances.

To be completely honest with you, Nirvana told me much about how he was communicating with your side of the battle and establishing what were the better terms of losses for us. Now I've already had this conversation with Nirvana myself, but I made it very clear that it was a horrid move to sit there and talk about those kinds of things with the Loyalist side of the conflict. He admitted fault for doing so and I explained to him that the reason I wasn't around was because I had to take my girlfriend to a couple of doctor appointments to make sure she's okay. (My lack of absence caused him to seek out some kind of guidance and went to you and Lucius.) So yeah, your leadership was impressive given who you were talking with.

If Corden hadn't stopped the battle we would have continued dealing blows to the Separatist on the Ice Field. Obviously we were always set to lose, but the way I see it we could have gotten to just about all the Separatist on the Ice Field before we fell ourselves. Look at the Loyalist/Separatist death ratio, it is a pretty easy way to see who was doing the most killing.

Once again, I claim what I said earlier about talking to Nirvana. As you said even, you were set to lose practically and we had more than enough to take out your forces.

Where have I stood around and cried? If you are talking about other Loyalist, well, the simple fact is that they aren't me. I have worked hard to help out the Loyalist, and yes I have supported peace but that doesn't mean I don't think the Civil War was unreasonable.

You have done that essentially. The amount of posts you've done since you started vocalizing your opinion against the Civil War has made you look like you're complaining. You may not outright do it, but it people can see it within your posts.

Unity. This Civil War isn't fun. It isn't interesting. It is just here.

That's just post that hints slightly at your stand on all of this to the point where you'd go as far as just announcing that it wasn't fun at all for anyone. Rather than saying you feel it isn't fun.

I can understand why you and Corden would wish to defect and start your own movement in the face of bad leadership that would never listen to your pleas. Although... it could have been handled better. You are apart of the reason why the Mandalorians have went down the toilet, besides completely shitty leadership.

Once again, you prove me point about mostly just complaining. As a veteran member, I've had a lot of experience on SWRP. Indie factions hardly ever work and usually die off in a couple weeks. This isn't the case with the Separatist. This faction has been organized and ran in a way that is most impressive on many levels. It's survived the test of time for indie factions and has proven itself to be extremely effective on many levels. Could it be that the Loyalist just had shitty leadership like you said?

Also, stop referring to the Mandalorians like they've just turned to utter shit because of a schism. There is still a faction of Mandalorians, but they're just split down the middle because of opposing ideas.

And ICly you are hardly taken action to properly establish the Mandalorians as strong again by almost turning peace talks into a battle... all... by... yourself.

OOC/IC

Simple as that. Mars supported the idea of peace and it's been made apparent. However, his character just may interpret things differently while still holding onto the peace idea.

Oh, and I never complained about Corden. OOCly and ICly I think he is a very talented leader, and I wouldn't object if he was placed as Mandalore. Would Titus object his rise to power? Probably, but we haven't got there yet so I can't really say.

Now I'm confused. You wouldn't think it'd be bad at all if Corden took official control of both sides and united everyone, but Titus would object against his rise? I know to refer to what I said about OOC/IC, but it seems like you might end up going down the same path as we did with the Separatist.

And I don't fight for Ender or any other of the crappy leaders that we have had in the past. I fight for the betterment of the Mandalorians as a whole. I don't think you should be leader, so I said something about. Have you not seen my previous efforts when it comes to helping out the Mandalorians? Oh wait- you have. You may have forgotten about them, I would suggest you go back and check them out before you put a label on me.

I can't see why you wouldn't Mars to be a leader either other than your distaste of him that's been explicitly seen in this post. As for your efforts to better the Mandalorians for the Loyalist side, I've seen them and read them myself. All it shows is that you were more active than the rest of the Loyalist and had a little more drive.

I accept that the Separatist won the Civil War for several reasons, but I don't wish to share them because it would be a waste of my time and you'd probably see it as me "complaining." Yeah have crippled Titus step up against the crazy Apollo? Urm, no. Your wishes to fight is silly. OOCly we aren't Mandalorians. We are people who can use words to settle things. Anyways, that is just my two cents.

Lol, well Titus decided to stand up and speak out. The problem with your move is that the Mandalorian culture is just as verbal as they are physical. If you can prove yourself with words, you better be able to prove yourself with your fists in the next breath. That's just how it is.

 

[Sreeya]

I'll have to back Horizon's last point especially, Nalla. It really seems like you're very vocal with Titus, but when it comes to any means of combat, you hide behind the fact that he's injured. Being that verbally offensive and insulting really does warrant some repercussion, and you try to avoid that by making the other person seem like an ass for wanting to hurt your poor, crippled char. =/

 

[Orphen]

I'm just gonna out and say this, since my first encounter with the mandalorians it's seemed that everything's just this constant shitstorm of ironic shildish behavior on both sides. Was the civil war a good idea? **** yeah it was! Looking at the way it was exicuted, should we have let it happen **** NO!!! Because it seems the mandalorians as a faction OOC with all the bickering and mess, and all the IC opposition and chaotic rights of challenge that are possible, they're just not ready as a faction to deal with something that could be cool. And i take REAL offense to what horizon said, and quite frankly YOU'RE WRONG, you don't get a say. You'
re wrong, about the loylist communication with Nirvana, collaboration for attempting a seemless battle that was cool, and could be looked back on and said, "Damn! the loyalists lost but we went out with a fight and created an awesome set piece!" Instead of it turning into a petty wreck of OOC shenanigans and having to call in the admins every seven seconds.

Even if you managed to convince Nirvana it was a mistake, all you did was convinced him into ignorance. You're talking like what you did was a service... Hell my character ordered a full retreat of the mountain base the second he recieved the signal. They had 5 minutes to evac, we would have lost just as much men as you in that explosion, and then it would have been settled in a melee. Which i was perfectly up for doing. But no, there was a dumb ruling instead.

/rolls eyes

sure

 

[Horizon]

I'm just gonna out and say this, since my first encounter with the mandalorians it's seemed that everything's just this constant shitstorm of ironic shildish behavior on both sides. Was the civil war a good idea? **** yeah it was! Looking at the way it was exicuted, should we have let it happen **** NO!!! Because it seems the mandalorians as a faction OOC with all the bickering and mess, and all the IC opposition and chaotic rights of challenge that are possible, they're just not ready as a faction to deal with something that could be cool. And i take REAL offense to what horizon said, and quite frankly YOU'RE WRONG, you don't get a say. You'
re wrong, about the loylist communication with Nirvana, collaboration for attempting a seemless battle that was cool, and could be looked back on and said, "Damn! the loyalists lost but we went out with a fight and created an awesome set piece!" Instead of it turning into a petty wreck of OOC shenanigans and having to call in the admins every seven seconds.

Even if you managed to convince Nirvana it was a mistake, all you did was convinced him into ignorance. You're talking like what you did was a service... Hell my character ordered a full retreat of the mountain base the second he recieved the signal. They had 5 minutes to evac, we would have lost just as much men as you in that explosion, and then it would have been settled in a melee. Which i was perfectly up for doing. But no, there was a dumb ruling instead.

/rolls eyes

sure

As opposed to fake offense?

 

[Django]

You presented some good points Horizon, but I don't feel the urge to reply to points I disagree with. I have no wish to drag out a discussion that isn't needed, and will probably only cause more tension between two sides. I will say my peace with this, and hopefully clear up some things.

Just to clear it up I haven't been complaining. I hope it didn't seem that way. There were a lot of RP opportunities and I would have enjoyed them played out properly on both sides, but that obviously didn't happen with Enders inactivity and Blue leaving and Wolf just fed up at the situation.

As for my post in the poll thread Corden had made a bit ago, I think it is fair to assume my words are in my opinion. You took it the wrong way. I never try to speak for people other than myself, unless I am representing them in a way.

To address the issue of Titus feeling one way and me the other, the reason behind that is because he doesn't like being put into a situation he didn't agree to. That is why he left the Mandalorians in the first place, and why he never got the point of having joined the Separatist after finally returning. He saw so many defecting and maybe deep down wanted to as well, but he never got to that point of deciding for himself.

I hope that clears up some stuff. The other points I feel like we could go on and on about and never really get anywhere.

I'll have to back Horizon's last point especially, Nalla. It really seems like you're very vocal with Titus, but when it comes to any means of combat, you hide behind the fact that he's injured. Being that verbally offensive and insulting really does warrant some repercussion, and you try to avoid that by making the other person seem like an ass for wanting to hurt your poor, crippled char. =/

That is a fair assumption, but I am certainly not hiding behind the fact he is injured. Do I want to be in a fight whilst he is injured? No, obviously not. I'd prefer a fairer fight when he is healthy. I haven't bitched about people attacking Titus though, and I've even welcomed it because of his words.

I mean besides the fact that Mars is more experienced when it comes to PvP, and that Apollo is scary as hell to fight, of course I would want to wait until he has healed before fighting.

 

[Horizon]

You presented some good points Horizon, but I don't feel the urge to reply to points I disagree with.

Then we're done here.

 

[Django]

I should have edited that out. I replied to some points after thinking about it some, but there were others that I feel like could have went on and on. If you have no wish to read the post, I understand.

 

[Sreeya]

Can't we all just kiss and make up?

 

[Mars]

Can't we all just kiss and make up?

That's Andraste's specialty.

;D

 

[Garen Stratos]

How the heck did a help me understand something topic turn into one just whole big flame war?