Freedom for Ord Radama OOC

[Narsi]

@Deviant
IC link

So, I have some issues with Deviant's latest post, and we've already discussed it via discord and have concluded that an ruling will likely be the only way to settle this. Before I file the actual report though, I'm going to outline my thoughts and reasoning first, both for simplicity and convenience on the matter. Deviant will be doing likewise.

So my issue is with this line Dev's latest post.

remained at her fingertips, however, in case the Jedi were to again redirect the mace with the force. She likewise made a mental note of it for later were it instead to fall worthlessly into the pavement. In addition, her perception noted the flat body of the soldier still more than half a dozen meters away from her, armor crushed but devoid of any grenades, weapons or tricks the Barabel might use from him.

I'm asserting that the corpse should be 4 meters close to him at the least, as my own (admittedly vague) measurements for moving it closer to him were "few"(at least2) "few"(at least 2) and "several" (at least more than 2) and his characters only backwards movement was a few quick steps back and stumbles from my mud/sand attack.

I'm also asserting that his perception of the dead soldiers body contradicts my own. As in my earlier posts I make the following IC notes.

• Gren swung her mace two handed into the heavy troopers chest,
• To think that a soldier of the Sith, actually expected some
• Gren glanced at the body between them, drawing strength from it and what it represented. He'd been uninjured too, untouched, with shiny new armor and equipment not even used yet

Using these IC mentions which were all locked in, I believe the dead trooper would still be possessing all his usual gear save the rifle which was punted into the unknown. I also took care to identify the soldier as Sith Trooper, which has its gear lined out on the Sith NPC page.

tl;dr: I want Dev to remove his (equipment related) IC perceptions of the corpse and adjust the distance based on the above spiel.

 

[Deviant]

Okay!

To start, I'm just going to contradict your interpretation of her movement, because nowhere do I mention her moving backwards. When writing, I had actually sought to imply her moving to the side (because how else could she dodge that mace throw moving rearward?). In addition, your mud/sand attack was clearly directed at her face and head, not her legs. She's not stumbling, and she's hardly affected by the distraction.

Anyway, let's move on to the real issue:

By your posts, and the inevitable actions you'll probably take, you're exploiting vague details. Nowhere does it mention the "heavy trooper" you're using has grenades or weapons. All you said was "equipment," which I had assumed was fluff up until I realized what you were planning to do. So, I clarified by pointing out in my post that the trooper is purely a plain NPC soldier. Likewise, the Sith NPC page you linked clearly says:

The Sith Empire's non-player character (NPC) classes are implemented in tactical battles, one of the battle types often played in Main Faction combat. At present, there are three (3) classes of NPCs, but this number may be expanded to include more NPC-types as the Empire expands.

And if I understand correctly, this is not a tactical battle. This is a 1v1 PvP that should be fought just between the two of us, not by taking advantage of some NPC with vague equipment you made no mention of— equipment I had no idea tactical Sith NPC's even had until you asked me to edit and linked that page.

And while my faint memory does recall that a ruling was made in which PC's can use NPC equipment, that was only in the case if it was clearly mentioned in the OP. At least, that's what I'm assuming (my memory is shite). And in this case, again, you mention nothing of the sort. Just "equipment," which could be anything from a simple utility belt, or the heavy rifle you specified in your OP. However, you're turning this heavy trooper NPC into a tactical one (Ord Radama isn't even a story planet), armed with grenades you yet again did not indicate at all.

Also, who in their right mind would infer that "heavy trooper" or "soldier of the Sith" suddenly meant it was a tactical NPC unit? I mean, I sure didn't, which is why in my post I made sure to clarify the inferior NPC was as it should be— an inferior NPC.

Anyway, I told @Narsi I wouldn't edit unless an administrator mediated, and as much as I'm not a fan of forcing rulings onto a thread this early, I guess this will have to be an exception. A report will be sent in momentarily (by either of us, because idek).

 

[Phoenix]

The rules regarding NPC equipment being used is that they have to be previously established, not in the OP. So they have to be placed at least in the round previous to the one that they are used in (which it was) so the NPC stands.

As for the equipment it was carrying, based on the Sith write-ups (while they were designed for tactical battles, if that's the standard trooper gear, it would logically also apply in other threads as well) there are three grenades carried by the average trooper. Since the equipment is mentioned as being unused and affirmed by opposition, that is done. There are grenades on the body. If there was question about that, it should have been dealt with beforehand.

As for the positions of the body. The characters began a little more than a dozen meters apart and the corpse was thrown ~3 meters three times which would put the body around 4-5 meters away from Hecate.

This ruling is final.

@Deviant @Narsi

 

[Deviant]

Lesson learned.

Gimme twenty-four hours and I'll have my post wholly reworked. Thank you for the quick ruling!

 

[Narsi]

@Deviant
Sooooooo
Here's my thoughts on your latest edits.
In all honesty, it feels slightly meta just choosing NOW to suddenly notice that its possible the soldiers weapons/other could be used against you. Especially as NOW, is right after dealing with an attack, getting a bunch mud/other being swept up in your face, and dodging another attack. Not to mention, your character has already noticed and then dismissed the corpse earlier without nary a thought.
----> recognizing the mangled heap of the innocent soldier this Jedi had just mauled. Not she really cared, of course
You make the decision(this connecting the dots) absurdly quickly as well. Doing everything (including throwing/tossing the EMP) after my mace is thrown and noticed, but before it passes you.

One last thing,
Why is your gear protected from the EMP?
Even if its in your armor, you should still be affected?

 

[Deviant]

@Deviant
Sooooooo
Here's my thoughts on your latest edits.
In all honesty, it feels slightly meta just choosing NOW to suddenly notice that its possible the soldiers weapons/other could be used against you. Especially as NOW, is right after dealing with an attack, getting a bunch mud/other being swept up in your face, and dodging another attack. Not to mention, your character has already noticed and then dismissed the corpse earlier without nary a thought.
----> recognizing the mangled heap of the innocent soldier this Jedi had just mauled. Not she really cared, of course
You make the decision(this connecting the dots) absurdly quickly as well. Doing everything (including throwing/tossing the EMP) after my mace is thrown and noticed, but before it passes you.

One last thing,
Why is your gear protected from the EMP?
Even if its in your armor, you should still be affected?

To start, I understand if the following actions do seem rather meta, but allow me to explain:

1) Her head is ducked low and slanted toward the corpse, and thus away from the majority of the debris.
2) She's blind and sees via force sense. Not sure how some other dust will prevent her from realizing what Gren has planned.
3) My post takes into the assumption that moving a two-hundred-pound body with an instinctual force pull will be slow, and easily noticeable once it moves even a foot forward (especially since from her line of attention, she has already recognized the body). While she didn't care before, she does now.
4) She threw the EMP (which was already in hand) a little over five meters out, putting her just out of range. This came after the body finished rolling down its course (now 4-5 meters away), which I interpreted as slow (as, once again, the dude's heavy af and I don't see Gren using an instant force pull to suddenly send him flying toward her).

Of course, my edits were made while I was in the middle of a class lecture, so apologies if I wasn't clear enough. I hadn't realized your character had used all that force power at the same exact time as throwing a massive, metal mace, so I'll make edits concerning the timing. We can discuss this further on discord, or through her. I just prefer the latter since I can respond faster, and still hide from the fact I have other threads to respond to.

Cheers.

 

[Phoenix]

Official ruling: Deviant's defense stands.

After extensive discussion, basically this came down to some errors in timing - for both posts to be honest. The biggest timing issue and the only one I'm going to detail in this paragraph is the mace. It's having to completely change its momentum in the air which is not going to be quick especially not while being done with split attention. Hecate probably wouldn't know that the attack from the mace is coming, but it wouldn't be coming quickly with a full redirect of momentum either. There were other things taken into consideration as well, but ultimately, Deviant's defense as written stands, particularly given that it is an impact weapon (meaning it's not having to entirely absorb the sound, but rather, trigger it). @Deviant @Narsi

 

[Phoenix]

So this is the third and final ruling for this thread so it will conclude this thread, unfortunately.

As it stands, this rifle has a 5 meter blast radius and just went off with Gren at one meter. Without armor, that blast would kill Gren. I've discussed sonic weapons with Clayton before and although armor does little to stop them, it would probably at least save Gren from being killed. However, the blow would be incapacitating.

Final ruling: Gren is incapacitated and captured. Hecate is victorious.