Death from Above OOC

[Valen Pelora]

IC Thread Link

Hey guys! (@Danee, @Gamov, @Kyle: The Rogue)

I am confused as a couple of things that we likely need to clear up.

• Is this meant to be a naval tactical battle? I conferred with a staff member in an unofficial capacity and was informed this could be a naval tactical battle if the sides were kept relatively even. I would agree to this.
• If it is not a naval tactical battle, how will the PVP work? I don't think I have seen any ship v ship individual PVP outside of dog fighting. We would probably need to establish some ground rules, although I suspect it would function much like a 'normal' PVP. We each control the ship we are on and the other NPCs don't matter much.
• I would like some notice when Gamov is going to join the thread.

I know there is some question going on about ranks and who can control what. I would prefer to wait to post until all of that is cleared up. Finally, the defenses around Jedha are as follows. This is from the staff approved write-up. I will be making use of these defense.

"It should be noted the Temple functions as the current heart of the Jedi. The Rangers, Guardians, and Jedi, take the protection of Jedha very seriously. The walls of the Holy City are patrolled by the Guardians. Turbolasers have been placed all along the walls and the walls have been reinforced. No ship lands in the Holy City without approval from the Guardians and careful inspection. The comers and goers from the City are highly scrutinized. The stairs to the Temple are protected by Turbolaser encampments. Rangers and Guardians are always standing guard at the Temple doors. Only Jedi and select Jedi allies are allowed within the Temple. The Jedi allow the people of the Holy City to bring their grievances on the Temple steps. The people are given a chance to have their disputes resolved by the Jedi. The agreement of old has been revived. The Guardians and the people of the Holy City protect the Jedi. The Jedi protect Jedha. Lastly, the top of the Temple has a shield generator capable of extending a shield surrounding the whole city. This is only used in case of planetary assault. The Temple is equipped with everything mentioned above and the typical ‘things’ one would find in a Jedi stronghold."

 

[Gamov]

Alright, in an attempt to clear things up so this doesn't devolve into an impossible cluster.

1) This was not originally planned as a tactical battle. Per this ruling, I was under the distinct impression that tactical battles were to be reserved strictly for main faction battles. So far as I am aware there has been no reversal/change in this policy. If this could be turned into a tactical battle though, I would not be opposed to it.

2) Whether this becomes a tactical battle or not, I believe we can adopt the same system we use for character vs. character PvP to dictate the terms and guidelines for ship to ship PvP. Essentially, to minimize confusion and bickering, we use a rating system for armor and weapons - light, medium and heavy - each of which can absorb/deal certain amounts of damage. Well, ships are basically flying suits of armor with guns, so I believe the same system can be easily retrofitted and applied here (and beefed up a bit) to account for the fact that ships will be doing the fighting rather than individual players.

So to convert our armor rating system, ships come in three classes: light, medium, heavy.

Light ships are your corvettes, mediums are frigates, and heavy is anything in the Star Destroyer class and above.

Now to account for the fact that warships make use of shields, I have equally divided the durability ratings for ships between their shields and their hull. For example, a corvette's shields could take 3 direct hits before falling (depending on the weapon used, which I will cover shortly). After that, its hull could absorb an additional 3 hits before the ship could be considered destroyed. With that in mind, ship durability ratings would look something like this:

Corvettes: 6 total hits - 3 to the shields, 3 to the hull.

Frigates: 12 total hits - 6 to the shields, 6 to the hull.

Star Destroyers: 24 total hits - 12 to the shields, 12 to the hull.

As far as dealing damage to a ship's shields and hull can be concerned, that will obviously be based on both the manner of weapons being used, and the class of ship on which they are being used (light, medium or heavy). Here again we can look to our rating system for firearms to determine how much damage each weapon type will inflict on what ships. I will admit, this one is a bit trickier to convert simply because I see so many variations of "light" "medium" and "heavy" weapons equipped on faction warships. For the sake of simplicity though, I will break ship based weapons down into categories to the best of my abilities.

Light weapons – anything designated as a laser canon (below the threshold of a turbolaser) that does not include the prefix "medium" beforehand. When used against corvettes (light armor), hits from these weapons would constitute one full hit against that ship's shields or hull. Against a frigate (medium armor), it would equate to ½ damage. Using laser canons against Star Destroyers (heavy armor) would result in negligible effects, doing only ¼ damage

Medium weapons – these include leaser canons and turbolasers that include the prefix “medium”. Corvettes (light armor) hit with these weapons will suffer 1 ½ damage per hit. Frigates (medium armor) will absorb a full hit, and Star Destroyers (heavy armor) would take ½ damage.

Heavy weapons – anything designated as turbolasers with or without the prefix “heavy”. Hits from these weapons against a corvette (light armor) will result in 2 full hits. Frigates (medium armor) will suffer 1 ½ damage, and Star Destroyers (heavy armor) will sustain 1 full hit.

Specialty Weapons:

*Ion canons – since these are specially designed to strip a ship's shields and/or disable them, they gain a boost in “damage”, and can be used to disable an enemy ship for a period of time. Against a corvette (light armor), ion canons constitute 1 ½ damage against the ship's shields, and 1 full hit against its hull. Against frigates (medium armor), it equates to 1 full hit against its shields, and ½ hit against its hull. When employed against Star Destroyers, ion canons represent ½ damage against its shields, and ¼ damage against its hull.

*NOTE: I am not taking into account the use of light, medium or heavy ion canons. This is simply to eliminate the confusion of an exhaustive list of ship based weapons. Ion canons will be treated the same no matter what class ship they are mounted on so as to help level the playing field.

**Concussion missiles – multi role missiles affixed to fighters and warships alike, they would excel at penetrating a ship's shields and causing damage to its hull. Against corvettes (light armor), these would equal 1 ½ damage to the ship's hull. Against a frigate (medium armor), it would constitute a full hit to its hull. When used against Star Destroyers, concussion missiles would do ½ damage to its hull. Bear in mind, however, that these sort of projectile weapons are vulnerable to being shot down by a ship's laser canons and/or any point defense systems.

**Proton torpedoes – offering even more penetration and explosive power than concussion missiles, proton torpedoes inflict extreme damage to both shields and hulls. When used on corvettes (light armor), proton torpedoes inflict 3 full hits. Against frigates (medium armor), it does 2 ½ damage. And when used on Star Destroyers, they will equate to 2 full hits. As with concussion missiles though, proton torpedoes can be shot down by laser canons and/or point defense systems; notably with slightly higher efficiency given they are larger and slower on account of being laden with more explosives.

**NOTE: Much like listing extra clips for weapons in a character vs. character PvP, ships should have the number of full reloads available for their concussion missiles and proton torpedoes during a single engagement. Once a ship has exhausted their full compliment of missiles and torpedoes, that's it. They're out. They must rely on their laser canons and turbolasers for the remainder of the battle.


That's how I have ship to ship PvP worked out in my head as of this moment. Questions, comments and concerns are welcome. So far as I can tell though, this is the best way to go about a naval battle that offers people some solid guidelines that will help to minimize confusion.

Additionally, I would also propose limiting the “plain” of battle to a 2 dimensional field similar to character vs. character duels. Certainly space is a 3 dimensional... space, but it is incredibly difficult to visualize all of the complex and intricate maneuvers warships would be capable of in such situations. So if we picture big ships squaring off against one another in battles akin to naval battles on our own seas, then things will be much easier for everyone. Besides, based off everything we have seen of naval battles in the films, that is more or less how space combat has been portrayed. I see no need to over complicate an already complex scenario by introducing a 3 dimensional battlefield into the mix.


Now, with all that out in the open, I suppose it is time to talk about the actual thread.

I have no problem turning this into a tactical battle if that is allowed, but I don't see how the Empire can accomplish its objective of razing the Holy City so long as its shields are up. For that we would probably need to launch a ground attack to disable the shield, and no doubt that would fall under the category of a major invasion - which would invariably constitute a main faction battle. I suppose Imperial fighter craft could do the job though, considering the generator is mounted atop the Temple of the Whills. I'm just not sure how that would be played out.

As far as my entry into the thread is concerned, I had intended to enter after @Kyle: The Rogue, but there's seems to be an issue with his character being given command of an Imperial corvette. So I'm not sure how to proceed here beyond voiding the current thread and starting fresh. I am open to discussion/suggestions on how to proceed.

 

[Valen Pelora]

We have been given permission to make this a tactical battle. That avoids most of the logistical concerns regarding armor ratings, ext.

If you were to defeat the Jedi fleet, I would imagine some type of group strike team could be implemented to take down the shields without a full scale battle.

The easy solution is for Kyle to delete his post, then the thread can proceed as normal.

 

[Gamov]

Well, that's all well and good, but without sounding confrontational, I don't see how that eliminates the need for the system I outlined. The ships are the tactics. Without knowing how to stack them up against one another, how does one decide victory?

I'm all for figuring this out as I want to flesh out some form of naval battle system so such battles can actually be feasible.

 

[Valen Pelora]

Clay did outline a battle system for naval battles. I don't think this is the appropriate thread to develop a whole new set of rules for naval tactical battles. Each ship used should have a write up that gives a pretty solid idea about the ships relative strength.

If people want to expand on the naval system and introduce armor ratings and things of that nature, that should be taken up with the staff.

I do have informal confirmation from the staff that we should use the rules that are currently in place.

 

[Gamov]

That was merely a layout detailing the types of battles and "troop counts".

I may take this issue up with the Staff actually. We have so many rules governing player vs. player combat, but only a vague framework for naval battles.

That said, I'm just going to call the thread off until a more concise system can be implemented.

 

[Valen Pelora]

If the thread is being called off, I'd kindly ask @Danee and @Kyle: The Rogue remove their posts so there isn't any confusion.

 

[René]

If the thread is being called off, I'd kindly ask @Danee and @Kyle: The Rogue remove their posts so there isn't any confusion.

If it is called off, then I'll do so, but as of now things are still being settled.

 

[Valen Pelora]

If it is called off, then I'll do so, but as of now things are still being settled.

Please read Gam's post directly above mine. He indicated "that said, I'm just going to call the thread off until a more concise system can be implemented."

 

[Danee]

Holy, you watch one episode of Orange is the New Black, play some PUBG and come back to this? If it's called off, it's called off.

 

[René]

Please read Gam's post directly above mine. He indicated "that said, I'm just going to call the thread off until a more concise system can be implemented."

Ok, I didn't see that. I'll remove it.

 

[Danee]

Since I can't delete the thread, I just edited out the entirety of the post.

 

[Loco]

Alright, in an attempt to clear things up so this doesn't devolve into an impossible cluster.

1) This was not originally planned as a tactical battle. Per this ruling, I was under the distinct impression that tactical battles were to be reserved strictly for main faction battles. So far as I am aware there has been no reversal/change in this policy. If this could be turned into a tactical battle though, I would not be opposed to it.

2) Whether this becomes a tactical battle or not, I believe we can adopt the same system we use for character vs. character PvP to dictate the terms and guidelines for ship to ship PvP. Essentially, to minimize confusion and bickering, we use a rating system for armor and weapons - light, medium and heavy - each of which can absorb/deal certain amounts of damage. Well, ships are basically flying suits of armor with guns, so I believe the same system can be easily retrofitted and applied here (and beefed up a bit) to account for the fact that ships will be doing the fighting rather than individual players.

So to convert our armor rating system, ships come in three classes: light, medium, heavy.

Light ships are your corvettes, mediums are frigates, and heavy is anything in the Star Destroyer class and above.

Now to account for the fact that warships make use of shields, I have equally divided the durability ratings for ships between their shields and their hull. For example, a corvette's shields could take 3 direct hits before falling (depending on the weapon used, which I will cover shortly). After that, its hull could absorb an additional 3 hits before the ship could be considered destroyed. With that in mind, ship durability ratings would look something like this:

Corvettes: 6 total hits - 3 to the shields, 3 to the hull.

Frigates: 12 total hits - 6 to the shields, 6 to the hull.

Star Destroyers: 24 total hits - 12 to the shields, 12 to the hull.

As far as dealing damage to a ship's shields and hull can be concerned, that will obviously be based on both the manner of weapons being used, and the class of ship on which they are being used (light, medium or heavy). Here again we can look to our rating system for firearms to determine how much damage each weapon type will inflict on what ships. I will admit, this one is a bit trickier to convert simply because I see so many variations of "light" "medium" and "heavy" weapons equipped on faction warships. For the sake of simplicity though, I will break ship based weapons down into categories to the best of my abilities.

Light weapons – anything designated as a laser canon (below the threshold of a turbolaser) that does not include the prefix "medium" beforehand. When used against corvettes (light armor), hits from these weapons would constitute one full hit against that ship's shields or hull. Against a frigate (medium armor), it would equate to ½ damage. Using laser canons against Star Destroyers (heavy armor) would result in negligible effects, doing only ¼ damage

Medium weapons – these include leaser canons and turbolasers that include the prefix “medium”. Corvettes (light armor) hit with these weapons will suffer 1 ½ damage per hit. Frigates (medium armor) will absorb a full hit, and Star Destroyers (heavy armor) would take ½ damage.

Heavy weapons – anything designated as turbolasers with or without the prefix “heavy”. Hits from these weapons against a corvette (light armor) will result in 2 full hits. Frigates (medium armor) will suffer 1 ½ damage, and Star Destroyers (heavy armor) will sustain 1 full hit.

Specialty Weapons:

*Ion canons – since these are specially designed to strip a ship's shields and/or disable them, they gain a boost in “damage”, and can be used to disable an enemy ship for a period of time. Against a corvette (light armor), ion canons constitute 1 ½ damage against the ship's shields, and 1 full hit against its hull. Against frigates (medium armor), it equates to 1 full hit against its shields, and ½ hit against its hull. When employed against Star Destroyers, ion canons represent ½ damage against its shields, and ¼ damage against its hull.

*NOTE: I am not taking into account the use of light, medium or heavy ion canons. This is simply to eliminate the confusion of an exhaustive list of ship based weapons. Ion canons will be treated the same no matter what class ship they are mounted on so as to help level the playing field.

**Concussion missiles – multi role missiles affixed to fighters and warships alike, they would excel at penetrating a ship's shields and causing damage to its hull. Against corvettes (light armor), these would equal 1 ½ damage to the ship's hull. Against a frigate (medium armor), it would constitute a full hit to its hull. When used against Star Destroyers, concussion missiles would do ½ damage to its hull. Bear in mind, however, that these sort of projectile weapons are vulnerable to being shot down by a ship's laser canons and/or any point defense systems.

**Proton torpedoes – offering even more penetration and explosive power than concussion missiles, proton torpedoes inflict extreme damage to both shields and hulls. When used on corvettes (light armor), proton torpedoes inflict 3 full hits. Against frigates (medium armor), it does 2 ½ damage. And when used on Star Destroyers, they will equate to 2 full hits. As with concussion missiles though, proton torpedoes can be shot down by laser canons and/or point defense systems; notably with slightly higher efficiency given they are larger and slower on account of being laden with more explosives.

**NOTE: Much like listing extra clips for weapons in a character vs. character PvP, ships should have the number of full reloads available for their concussion missiles and proton torpedoes during a single engagement. Once a ship has exhausted their full compliment of missiles and torpedoes, that's it. They're out. They must rely on their laser canons and turbolasers for the remainder of the battle.


That's how I have ship to ship PvP worked out in my head as of this moment. Questions, comments and concerns are welcome. So far as I can tell though, this is the best way to go about a naval battle that offers people some solid guidelines that will help to minimize confusion.

Additionally, I would also propose limiting the “plain” of battle to a 2 dimensional field similar to character vs. character duels. Certainly space is a 3 dimensional... space, but it is incredibly difficult to visualize all of the complex and intricate maneuvers warships would be capable of in such situations. So if we picture big ships squaring off against one another in battles akin to naval battles on our own seas, then things will be much easier for everyone. Besides, based off everything we have seen of naval battles in the films, that is more or less how space combat has been portrayed. I see no need to over complicate an already complex scenario by introducing a 3 dimensional battlefield into the mix.


Now, with all that out in the open, I suppose it is time to talk about the actual thread.

I have no problem turning this into a tactical battle if that is allowed, but I don't see how the Empire can accomplish its objective of razing the Holy City so long as its shields are up. For that we would probably need to launch a ground attack to disable the shield, and no doubt that would fall under the category of a major invasion - which would invariably constitute a main faction battle. I suppose Imperial fighter craft could do the job though, considering the generator is mounted atop the Temple of the Whills. I'm just not sure how that would be played out.

As far as my entry into the thread is concerned, I had intended to enter after @Kyle: The Rogue, but there's seems to be an issue with his character being given command of an Imperial corvette. So I'm not sure how to proceed here beyond voiding the current thread and starting fresh. I am open to discussion/suggestions on how to proceed.

TL;DR