Captain America: Civil War

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Lol, I was in a rush my man. Also I hope you didn't think my response had a hostile tone, it was not intended. However I do think you are wrong on some things.

I think Tony was Arrogant starting off, like he was truely Arrogant. Then over the rest of the movies this dies down and it becomes "humorous Arrogance" not true arrogance. Its just a part of his personality that he thinks is funny so he uses it. He doesn't truely believe he is better than everyone else, he actually gets a little more humble.

I still think Age of Ultron throws the notion of "I'm just being funny." out the window when at every turn he gets some form of "Tony no." and his response is inavriably "Tony yes."

This. He never had sinister motives, and all in all, he is a Hero. Not to mention other heroes have made mistakes too. Thor was a pompous ass from the start and all the Guardians of the Galaxy were just criminals, same with Scott Lang. They all mad bad mistakes, but they all became real heroes in the end. Sure, Tony and Banner made a pretty big one, but they also corrected it and redeamed themselves for it.

I never said Tony wasn't a hero nor that he had sinister motivations. One can still be selfish, egotistical, and self-righteous while qualifying as one of the good guys. I am merely pointing out his track record does not qualify him as the guy who should be the figure head of a pro government movement (especially when going through most of his movies spurning government involvement).

As for your examples I am also not damning anyone for one past mistake. It's just that Tony keeps making pretty large ones.

The Iron Man's most powerful enemy is the man in the suit. Which makes for an interesting character I agree with both of you. That doesn't mean it excuses all of his flaws that make him interesting. I've been raised under the notion that "A man who is nice to you, but an asshole to the waiter is still an asshole." Tony is charming, smart, and at his core trying to do the right thing. He just keeps fucking it up.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

And to both continue and reiterate what Johnny is saying, those constant fuck ups are, to me, part of what's interesting about the character. It's part of why I enjoy the character. He keeps confronting his past mistakes, and in doing so continues making mistakes. Tony is very much the embodiment of the idea that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

So I think you guys are coming at Johnny as if he's saying Tony is a bad character, or that we shouldn't enjoy his character or consider him a hero. Not so. Johnny's just saying that Tony's past makes him a flawed standard bearer for responsible superhero'ing. Because he can preach accountability - and indeed, it's probably his past actions that inform why he is the face of government oversight - but he will invariably continue to fuck things up in pursuit of trying to make things right.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

I just didn't like how Johnny dumbed his character down to an Arrogant fuck up. So I tried to fix that.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

If that's how you were reading Johnny's posts, I think you were reading them wrong. The intent was pretty clear. Tony is an arrogant fuck up (cycle of arrogance --> guilt --> arrogance), but that doesn't mean he's not a hero and isn't trying to do the right thing.

 

[Mr.BossMan]

Either way I think we can all agree this movie is gonna be badass.

 

[The Derp of Hooves]

So moving back onto the subject of the actual movie now... Do you think we're going to see any of the X-men in the movie? Or perhaps in upcoming ones with the avengers? I thought at least Wolverine was a sort of semi part of them (though never officially joining them unless I missed something?) I'd love to see an X-men/Avengers cross over :3

 

[Brandon Rhea]

So moving back onto the subject of the actual movie now... Do you think we're going to see any of the X-men in the movie? Or perhaps in upcoming ones with the avengers? I thought at least Wolverine was a sort of semi part of them (though never officially joining them unless I missed something?) I'd love to see an X-men/Avengers cross over :3

Marvel doesn't have the X-Men film rights. That's why 20th Century Fox makes those movies. There can't be a crossover unless the two studios make a deal.

So no, there won't be any X-Men in the movie.

 

[The Derp of Hooves]

Eh, well we could if fox and marvel co-oped a movie together :3 but yeah no X-men in this one though... it would've been nice to see Wolverine kick some butt here though

Edit: And I completely missed the second half of your post... oops lol...

 

[Phil]

Even if the both made a deal, there needs to be a way to connect the two. The Avengers exploits and The X-Men's exploits couldn't just be ignored by the other.

 

[Brandon Rhea]

Even if the both made a deal, there needs to be a way to connect the two. The Avengers exploits and The X-Men's exploits couldn't just be ignored by the other.

They can't be in the same universe. It would make no sense. They'd have to use some cosmic space magic to go from one universe to another.

If it does happen, Deadpool needs to be there. To have a scene like:

CAP: How did you get to our universe?
DR. STRANGE: Well, you see we traveled across dimensions by [space bullshit goes here].
WOLVERINE: Huh?
DEADPOOL: Disney and Fox cut a deal.

 

[Phil]

They can't be in the same universe. It would make no sense. They'd have to use some cosmic space magic to go from one universe to another.

If it does happen, Deadpool needs to be there. To have a scene like:

CAP: How did you get to our universe?
DR. STRANGE: Well, you see we traveled across dimensions by [space bullshit goes here].
WOLVERINE: Huh?
DEADPOOL: Disney and Fox cut a deal.

Pretty much, yeah. Deadpool would literally have to destroy the fourth wall, Blazing Saddles style, for the X-Men and Avengers to meet for it to make any logical sense.

 

[Nor'baal]

But we all know that the studio can't afford any more Xmen.....

Deadpool Banter.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

Dat vest

 

[Phil]

Still Team Tony, and thankful it's not the one from the Comics. So far, this one seems to have a far more interesting and far less retarded story then the comics had. But I think both sides need a compromise. They need to be held accountable for their actions, but they shouldn't have to answer to a bunch of pencil necks on when and when not to act. If Tony or Steve are going for a casual walk, and they see someone rob a store or do a hit and run, they(Steve, above all people) should have the right to intervene rather then call the police. Sad thing is, it's looking like they either have to Register or be labeled Vigilantes, like Daredevil and Punisher are. Though Steve isn't going about it right either by trying to help Buck the way he is.

 

[Outlander]

Its not that one person is right. Its that they're both equally wrong.

Still Team Tony, and thankful it's not the one from the Comics. So far, this one seems to have a far more interesting and far less retarded story then the comics had. But I think both sides need a compromise. They need to be held accountable for their actions, but they shouldn't have to answer to a bunch of pencil necks on when and when not to act. If Tony or Steve are going for a casual walk, and they see someone rob a store or do a hit and run, they(Steve, above all people) should have the right to intervene rather then call the police. Sad thing is, it's looking like they either have to Register or be labeled Vigilantes, like Daredevil and Punisher are. Though Steve isn't going about it right either by trying to help Buck the way he is.

 

[Phil]

Its not that one person is right. Its that they're both equally wrong.

I'm guessing they could have come to some sort of compromise to make everyone happy if Steve didn't go AWOL and help a terrorist fugitive, even if he was brainwashed.

 

[Outlander]

I'm really hoping something drastic happens by the end, like how crazy the end of Winter Soldier got and the ramifications that had. I mean, in the comics, Cap is literally assassinated. Im sure they won't do that, but it would show that they have balls.

Also, Daredevil, and pretty much all MCU shows, are great.

I'm guessing they could have come to some sort of compromise to make everyone happy if Steve didn't go AWOL and help a terrorist fugitive, even if he was brainwashed.

 

[Phil]

I'm really hoping something drastic happens by the end, like how crazy the end of Winter Soldier got and the ramifications that had. I mean, in the comics, Cap is literally assassinated. Im sure they won't do that, but it would show that they have balls.

Also, Daredevil, and pretty much all MCU shows, are great.

Never said the MCU shows were bad. Just that Daredevil and Punisher, unlike The Avengers, are vigilantes and operate outside the law, the former having a strained relationship with a police officer.

Also if Steve got assassinated at the end, that would blow so many people away if it ended like that, with no signs or after credit scenes that showed him being resurrected or anything.

 

[Outlander]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you did. I was just saying that since I saw it brought up earlier, and wanted to voice my personal enjoyment of them.

Never said the MCU shows were bad. Just that Daredevil and Punisher, unlike The Avengers, are vigilantes and operate outside the law, the former having a strained relationship with a police officer.

 

[Johnnysaurus Rex]

I see the points of both sides (and lean toward registration/government oversight in the comics and movies). Honestly, the best course of actions is to just let both do their own thing. Cap's Team get to operate freely and on their own agenda and Iron Man's Team are the government team that handles jobs given to them and also as a counter-measure to Cap's team per government interest. Cap's team are, if you think about it, more than vigilantes and through the proper channels could be more considered a non-profit NGO at best or some sort of private security/military entity. Which are totally legal while not perfect descriptors of what the Avengers do.

I kind of wish the MCU were more expansive for this storyline since the Avengers being the ONLY (seemingly if we aren't counting the Agents of SHIELD) superhero team bugs me. Maybe it will be addressed in film that the Avengers (like Daredevil in the Netflix shows) are inspiring copycats and the UN needs to reign the Avengers in to either A) get all the other world teams to do so or B) help show that you can't just throw a team of super powered beings together and expect no consequences.