Bank be gone

[Eccles]

Ehh yeah, so as I read it the attack on my character will be removed.. guess it's a green light from my end? Go ahead and post, @Diva Tumi. Though it seems the posting order is a bit whacky as @Benvenu7 is one post short because he's waiting for @Braden Drake's edits? Idunno.

 

[Richie B.]

@Braden Drake i posted so if you still want to edit I'm fine with that but if you just want to keep on going I'm fine with that.

@+SpaceJesus+ you still got to edit though just so you know.

 

[Diva]

I'll wait until early evening for my post, incase you have any more questions @+SpaceJesus+

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

Edited ;)

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

So one objection I have is that it was made very clear in your first post that you primed the boots for jumping after she landed, meaning she never would have actually been able to prime it before it went off. She couldn't have done it while sliding, she was shooting a Gutripper and it would be nigh impossible to shoot it as accurately as she was with one hand and then focus on priming something on her belt whilst sliding across a table. It just doesn't add up time wise.

 

[Diva]

You are confusing the location of my paragraph with the timing of the move. She primed the boots by using the jutting edge of her datapad on her belt to press the switch, done in lui of firing her left handed blaster. As she was not using her left hand while firing the gutripper, this was a "meanwhile action" not an after the fact action. If this was something that was a problem, it should have been brought up before the next post.

Even so, in this post, with the interrupted action of the Debris barrier, she stopped firing her guttripper immediately and dropped it, so even if I agreed to edit, she would be able to slap the button with her free hand to prime, and it would still track.

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

Besides how obscenely difficult and impractical trying to press a button with the edge of a data pad while sliding across a table while firing a laser mini gun while talking on a comlink while preparing a jump should be I still feel like she would be too close to the bomb when it went off to get out unscathed. She could fly like what, six or seven feet away before the blast went off? The death radius for a regulate grenade is five meters, with injury range being about 15. granted, the high injury range has to do with shrapnel, not the explosion, in a regular grenade, much unlike a thermal detonator, but seriously. She should get hit by something. Some burns, a bit of shrapnel, something in there should be negative.

 

[Diva]

A comm only requires talking.

A Guttripper is closest to an mpk5, not a mini-gun. An mpk5 is managable one handed by a trained proffesional, and a bent arm, and bracing (her hip) makes it easier. She is basically just keeping it pointed at you, and I mentioned that accuracy was spotty, but you were also running AT her.

Of the what, 3? large buttons on her bracer she clicked one agains an object that sticks out from her left hip. It has always stated on her profile she is ambidexterous, not to mention how comfortable she is with guns in her hand.

That is in no way the appropriate radius for a simple frag grenade. Death radius of 5 meters? 5 meters is over 16 feet. 15 meters is around 50 feet. No sir. As far as her jump, 6-7 feet is how far i can jump. Diva has been a gymast since she could walk, but that is even irrellivent. She is propelled by rockets.

Finally, you specifically stated that the grenade would land infront of her as/if she landed behind the desk. That would put place it extremely close, possibly under the desk itself. The desks, as had been established before either of our post, are blast resistant, and even if not would have gone a long way in containing that blast.

If we want to talk timing minutia, I could also go back to how on earth you rolled the grenade across what must have been at least 10 meters (30 + feet) between them on the inside (you used a curve), in what, compared to other moves, was roughly 3, maybe 4 seconds. I ignored that because I thought it was creative, and wanted to let you have it.

 

[Kiro]

Not an RP Admin, so I can't make official rulings regarding an ongoing PvP fight.

However, I can chime in when it comes to tech and it's use. And let me just point out that Diva's in the right here. Doing what she does in her post isn't that far-fetched. She's a trained professional, so being on comms, firing an SMG style carbine from the hip at someone running towards you, it's not too unrealistic. And with rocket boots...

Anyway, @+SpaceJesus+ the maximum effective range of any explosive ordinance a player character can feasibly carry into combat is 10 meters, on this site. Which includes potentially lethal shrapnel. So get out of here with your "15 meter injury radius". It's 10, max. End of story.

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

There seem to be some misconceptions about what I was trying to say in my last post.

I did comment that the high injury range was due to how real world grenades work, and not thermal detonators, so I recognized how it was not actually applicable. Plus, I do remember the five meter "kill zone" is basically created when the percentage chance of receiving a fatal injury reaches a certain point, so I wasn't implying that everyone within 15 meters would automatically be injured or that anyone within five meters would be automatically killed. I was just trying to show that considering how large the effective range of effect can be, she truly would be close enough to be affected regardless. She honestly shouldn't even be able to get that far away in time. A blast radius of just 4 meters total would hit her. There's just no way in my mind that I can see her skidding across a desk and jumping off with enough momentum, precision, reaction speed and perfect timing to get away completely unscathed.

In fact, she totally ignored the blast, somehow being so pulled together as to reason and execute a counterattack while haphazardly bobbing through the air, or not so haphazardly considering. And she wasn't shooting sporadically, she was shooting quite accurately according to the actual post, heck she didn't even seem to be missing any of her shots. Shooting a sub machine gun that accurately, while moving, at a moving target, one handed should require enough concentration alone to keep her from reacting so easily, even if she stopped prematurely. It's like she has a tracking camera on her helmet that tells her exactly where and when to look and act without her even thinking. All in all I simply found this situation entirely to convenient, and it cannot be hand waved as her just being skilled.

If a single flash bang can completely shatter the concentration of my character an explosion at almost point blank range should at least pull her concentration towards it and away from battle.

In the end I still find it hard to believe that she would accomplish and nullify this much in one post. There's like 7 different things happening at one time and It just feels to easily done. She gets away unharmed way to effectively and recovers way to quickly.

I'm kindly requesting that the post be edited so the explosion causes some form of injury, significant enough to impact the rest of the posts actions.

 

[Kiro]

There seem to be some misconceptions about what I was trying to say in my last post.

I did comment that the high injury range was due to how real world grenades work, and not thermal detonators, so I recognized how it was not actually applicable. Plus, I do remember the five meter "kill zone" is basically created when the percentage chance of receiving a fatal injury reaches a certain point, so I wasn't implying that everyone within 15 meters would automatically be injured or that anyone within five meters would be automatically killed. I was just trying to show that considering how large the effective range of effect can be, she truly would be close enough to be affected regardless. She honestly shouldn't even be able to get that far away in time. A blast radius of just 4 meters total would hit her. There's just no way in my mind that I can see her skidding across a desk and jumping off with enough momentum, precision, reaction speed and perfect timing to get away completely unscathed.

In fact, she totally ignored the blast, somehow being so pulled together as to reason and execute a counterattack while haphazardly bobbing through the air, or not so haphazardly considering. And she wasn't shooting sporadically, she was shooting quite accurately according to the actual post, heck she didn't even seem to be missing any of her shots. Shooting a sub machine gun that accurately, while moving, at a moving target, one handed should require enough concentration alone to keep her from reacting so easily, even if she stopped prematurely. It's like she has a tracking camera on her helmet that tells her exactly where and when to look and act without her even thinking. All in all I simply found this situation entirely to convenient, and it cannot be hand waved as her just being skilled.

If a single flash bang can completely shatter the concentration of my character an explosion at almost point blank range should at least pull her concentration towards it and away from battle.

In the end I still find it hard to believe that she would accomplish and nullify this much in one post. There's like 7 different things happening at one time and It just feels to easily done. She gets away unharmed way to effectively and recovers way to quickly.

I'm kindly requesting that the post be edited so the explosion causes some form of injury, significant enough to impact the rest of the posts actions.

Forget Real World. It's Star Wars. 10 meters, max. 15 meter, no. 10 meters. 10.000000000001 meters, you're fine. End of story.

 

[Diva]

Ok man. I am really not sure what to say because you most just reiterate the same things but louder, and it's all based on feelings.

First, to adress the above tech rules, from what I understand 10 meters is max, and applies to MAX ordinance, and you threw a grenade. A grenade she saw you had before throwing it, and was looking right at you when you did. You weren't hiding it, and you rolled it at her. Did you imagine it circling the room before it got there?

Second, I'm sorry you can't "see" the jump, but it happened. She activated an approved piece of tech and used it to catapult herself free from the grenade it now seems you were trying to auto-hit me with. I stated it was less than perfect use of the tech, which is why she had little control over her jump, and why she actually didn't do much in the jump, which brings me to...

Third, the jump. I see where you might be confused her. She is not firing the carbine while in the air, she is firing the pistol in her left hand that she has had this whole time, and she fires it once. Only once, at the top of your head. I'm not forcing that hit on you. With the right hand, which dropped the carbine when the debris appeared, she yoinked a random grenade from her belt, which I decided to make her second flashbang, to spare you potential frag damage. Get a nerf gun, and put a paper clamp on your belt. Now jump off your sofa, and pull the trigger with one hand, while snatching the paper clamp. I bet you can. Now she has quite a bit more flight time in a higher arc to figure that much out.....

Fourth. She actually is wearing a helmet with a HUD that has some tracking features. Check her armor, it is linked from her profile. It also has balisstic resistance and is flame retardent. I try not to wright to much fancy crap like that when I don't think it neccessary, but I will be happy to edit that in if you like.

Fifth. Handwaving as skill. Your entire grenade throw was handwaved as being skilled. Case closed.

Sixth. Flash Bangs are Specifically designed to shatter a person's concentration (which mine did not, and I let slip). Frag grenades are designed to wound and mame.

Seventh. The positions you skillfully described tossing the grenae into places it very close to the desk on the side furthest from you. The jump takes her up and away in the opposite directiion. I wish I knew how to insert a diagram here, but unfortunately the desk (which you acknowledged as blast resistant) is in the perfect place to provide maximum cover at that exact angle. That being said, you are right, I did not acknowlwege the blast in any way, other than it's commical effect on the desk, which is iffy writing, and I understand how that gets your goat. It's a little rude, and I will make an edit here.

Eighth. See is bruised and dazed, and on her ass with her back to a collum right now.


I am prepared to make some creative edits for the sake of your feelings here, even up the damage take because it sucks that you are now 1v2 since your comrade decided she actually took a hit from the flash bang, and hightailed it. But If you have more to say, please try to show me something logical I am missing.

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

Um, you guys are really not getting anything I'm saying. I am not trying to give a grenade fifteen meters of automatic damage, or even ten. I'm stating that just having about 4-5 meters of range would be enough to hit her. I'm regretting even bringing up the grenade reference because it seems to have woefully skewed the point I was trying to make. If I seem to be reiterating points it's because I think hey haven't really been addressed by what had been said.

Ok man. I am really not sure what to say because you most just reiterate the same things but louder, and it's all based on feelings.

First, to adress the above tech rules, from what I understand 10 meters is max, and applies to MAX ordinance, and you threw a grenade. A grenade she saw you had before throwing it, and was looking right at you when you did. You weren't hiding it, and you rolled it at her. Did you imagine it circling the room before it got there?

Again, it doesn't need 10 meters, she wouldn't have flown 10 meters during a split second reaction. She wouldn't have flown far at all. I didn't imagine it circling the room before it got there, I imagined it getting there quick enough that this shouldn't be an issue. She was looking at him while performing a multitude of actions that would divert her concentration. There's just entirely to many things for her to be focusing on for there to be

Second, I'm sorry you can't "see" the jump, but it happened. She activated an approved piece of tech and used it to catapult herself free from the grenade it now seems you were trying to auto-hit me with. I stated it was less than perfect use of the tech, which is why she had little control over her jump, and why she actually didn't do much in the jump, which brings me to...

Being auto hit /=/ being written into corners

Also, this less than perfect use of tech happened perfectly. If you wrote it was the worst jump in history or the best one, the actions she took afterwards or before bare no qualities that there was any problem at all. She did a lot. She's been doing a lot for the past few seconds. Listing it out:

1)firing the high recoil gun one handed accurately 2)talking in the com 3) jumping/ somersaulting onto a desk and skidding over said desk in a fixed pose 4) preparing to jump 5) having enough time to think about aiming and also reason to push the boot primer button because of the grenade she saw a split second before within a small period of time 6) push the boot primer button. 7) spot said grenade in the midst of a wall of debris being conjured in front of her, which would catch most people at least alitlle off gaurd and send many small debris bits to distract. 8) Press the boots activation switch 9) somehow fly far enough away in a hasty and imperfect rocket boost to be completely unaffected. This all happens in arguably 2-2.5 seconds.

Then the imperfect boost was good enough to where she was carried right over the battlefield in an organized way that allowed her to still aim easily with a pistol and then throw a grenade accurately, while landing on the wall in a light and finessed manner that pushed over the wall but landed only long enough to be convenient and only putting her within striking range for a split second. Then she flew away to safety until she finally had some form of injury, at the very end of a long string of actions that would unevitably be interrupted.

Third, the jump. I see where you might be confused her. She is not firing the carbine while in the air, she is firing the pistol in her left hand that she has had this whole time, and she fires it once. Only once, at the top of your head. I'm not forcing that hit on you. With the right hand, which dropped the carbine when the debris appeared, she yoinked a random grenade from her belt, which I decided to make her second flashbang, to spare you potential frag damage. Get a nerf gun, and put a paper clamp on your belt. Now jump off your sofa, and pull the trigger with one hand, while snatching the paper clamp. I bet you can. Now she has quite a bit more flight time in a higher arc to figure that much out.....

It's not a manner of whether the attacks themselves were auto hits, or even that it couldn't happen, it's the fact that most of this never should have happened the way it did because she should have been dealing with an injury or recovering more dramatically.

Also, you totally made me look like a doofus to my brother just now when I said challenge accepted and tried exactly what you just said, just as an irrelevant side note. :oops:

Fourth. She actually is wearing a helmet with a HUD that has some tracking features. Check her armor, it is linked from her profile. It also has balisstic resistance and is flame retardent. I try not to wright to much fancy crap like that when I don't think it neccessary, but I will be happy to edit that in if you like.

I saw that already, and as much as that could be used to actually see the grenade it does nothing to change the trajectory of where she's going or get her enough time and focus to react. She didn't even stop herself. She probably should have just slid off anyway, unless this table is a whole lot longer than any desk I've seen.

Fifth. Handwaving as skill. Your entire grenade throw was handwaved as being skilled. Case closed.

In no way is one action comparable to 10 actions all requiring appealing to skill being performed at points simultaneously within a few second time span.

Sixth. Flash Bangs are Specifically designed to shatter a person's concentration (which mine did not, and I let slip). Frag grenades are designed to wound and mame.

Perhaps it's not the same, but it wouldn't do nothing in that area either. It's yet another detail that should divert concentration.

Seventh. The positions you skillfully described tossing the grenae into places it very close to the desk on the side furthest from you. The jump takes her up and away in the opposite directiion. I wish I knew how to insert a diagram here, but unfortunately the desk (which you acknowledged as blast resistant) is in the perfect place to provide maximum cover at that exact angle. That being said, you are right, I did not acknowlwege the blast in any way, other than it's commical effect on the desk, which is iffy writing, and I understand how that gets your goat. It's a little rude, and I will make an edit here.

*Disclaimer: these are designed to augment jumping, and work with the users current momentum. Attempting to use them while not in motion will likely prove disasterous. Even so, stability is no easy feat with these, and requires a great deal of training to use without injury.

So boosting in the opposite direction of her motion, away from the grenade, would be disastrous. However, I do appreciate your acknowledgment of my concerns.

I am prepared to make some creative edits for the sake of your feelings here, even up the damage take because it sucks that you are now 1v2 since your comrade decided she actually took a hit from the flash bang, and hightailed it. But If you have more to say, please try to show me something logical I am missing.

Now hold on. I'm not giving points based on emotions and random stuff I'm pulling from nowhere in an Internet rant, and that seems to be what's being suggested right here and in many places throughout your post. I do apologize if I came off as rude or provoked anyone in any of my previous posts.

Now, I feel like we both can agree that an injury is required in this situation. Certain parts of the post quite simply didn't add up.

 

[Kiro]

1)firing the high recoil gun one handed accurately 2)talking in the com 3) jumping/ somersaulting onto a desk and skidding over said desk in a fixed pose 4) preparing to jump 5) having enough time to think about aiming and also reason to push the boot primer button because of the grenade she saw a split second before within a small period of time 6) push the boot primer button. 7) spot said grenade in the midst of a wall of debris being conjured in front of her, which would catch most people at least alitlle off gaurd and send many small debris bits to distract. 8) Press the boots activation switch 9) somehow fly far enough away in a hasty and imperfect rocket boost to be completely unaffected. This all happens in arguably 2-2.5 seconds.

Your point being?

Most PvP posts only cover a couple of seconds of actual elapsed time. I've seen players do far more in one post, and far more ludicrous things in that post, and none of it was... argued over with the same level of 'passion' as you do. I personally see nothing wrong with Diva's post. I've done similar stuff, I've seen people do similar stuff, and worse/more.

I don't really see any of the points you're trying to make.

 

[Black Noise]

Most PvP posts only cover a couple of seconds of actual elapsed time. I've seen players do far more in one post, and far more ludicrous things in that post, and none of it was... argued over with the same level of 'passion' as you do. I personally see nothing wrong with Diva's post. I've done similar stuff, I've seen people do similar stuff, and worse/more.

Welcome to SWRP, you must be new here.

I don't really see any of the points you're trying to make.

Read the last paragraph of his above post.

 

[Diva]

Um, you guys are really not getting anything I'm saying. I am not trying to give a grenade fifteen meters of automatic damage, or even ten. I'm stating that just having about 4-5 meters of range would be enough to hit her. I'm regretting even bringing up the grenade reference because it seems to have woefully skewed the point I was trying to make. If I seem to be reiterating points it's because I think hey haven't really been addressed by what had been said.



Again, it doesn't need 10 meters, she wouldn't have flown 10 meters during a split second reaction. She wouldn't have flown far at all. I didn't imagine it circling the room before it got there, I imagined it getting there quick enough that this shouldn't be an issue. She was looking at him while performing a multitude of actions that would divert her concentration. There's just entirely to many things for her to be focusing on for there to be



Being auto hit /=/ being written into corners

Also, this less than perfect use of tech happened perfectly. If you wrote it was the worst jump in history or the best one, the actions she took afterwards or before bare no qualities that there was any problem at all. She did a lot. She's been doing a lot for the past few seconds. Listing it out:

1)firing the high recoil gun one handed accurately 2)talking in the com 3) jumping/ somersaulting onto a desk and skidding over said desk in a fixed pose 4) preparing to jump 5) having enough time to think about aiming and also reason to push the boot primer button because of the grenade she saw a split second before within a small period of time 6) push the boot primer button. 7) spot said grenade in the midst of a wall of debris being conjured in front of her, which would catch most people at least alitlle off gaurd and send many small debris bits to distract. 8) Press the boots activation switch 9) somehow fly far enough away in a hasty and imperfect rocket boost to be completely unaffected. This all happens in arguably 2-2.5 seconds.

Then the imperfect boost was good enough to where she was carried right over the battlefield in an organized way that allowed her to still aim easily with a pistol and then throw a grenade accurately, while landing on the wall in a light and finessed manner that pushed over the wall but landed only long enough to be convenient and only putting her within striking range for a split second. Then she flew away to safety until she finally had some form of injury, at the very end of a long string of actions that would unevitably be interrupted.



It's not a manner of whether the attacks themselves were auto hits, or even that it couldn't happen, it's the fact that most of this never should have happened the way it did because she should have been dealing with an injury or recovering more dramatically.

Also, you totally made me look like a doofus to my brother just now when I said challenge accepted and tried exactly what you just said, just as an irrelevant side note. :oops:



I saw that already, and as much as that could be used to actually see the grenade it does nothing to change the trajectory of where she's going or get her enough time and focus to react. She didn't even stop herself. She probably should have just slid off anyway, unless this table is a whole lot longer than any desk I've seen.



In no way is one action comparable to 10 actions all requiring appealing to skill being performed at points simultaneously within a few second time span.



Perhaps it's not the same, but it wouldn't do nothing in that area either. It's yet another detail that should divert concentration.



*Disclaimer: these are designed to augment jumping, and work with the users current momentum. Attempting to use them while not in motion will likely prove disasterous. Even so, stability is no easy feat with these, and requires a great deal of training to use without injury.

So boosting in the opposite direction of her motion, away from the grenade, would be disastrous. However, I do appreciate your acknowledgment of my concerns.



Now hold on. I'm not giving points based on emotions and random stuff I'm pulling from nowhere in an Internet rant, and that seems to be what's being suggested right here and in many places throughout your post. I do apologize if I came off as rude or provoked anyone in any of my previous posts.

Now, I feel like we both can agree that an injury is required in this situation. Certain parts of the post quite simply didn't add up.

I'm sorry if what I'm about to say seems nasty, but my aim is to be helpful. There is a reason no one understands what you are saying. Your "list" of what she has been doing is incoherent. You mention things that are already set from a previous post, you repeat the same action several times with different wording, and most egregiously you are embellishing details that are completely imagined, with nothing to back them up. Somersault? Where the hell was that in my post? Fixed pose? What are you picturing? And what is your problem with her seeing the grenade you whipped out two posts prior, and rolled in her direction like the frickin big lebowski? Was it an invisible grenade? Why can't she see things happening In front of her? She isn't looking down a Scope, she's aiming from the hip, at his body, which is where the grenade comes from. And she stops aiming the minute her target is obstructed. Do you understand how vision works?

It is hard to understand you, because most of what you are saying there is redundant, worded poorly, partially fabricated, or it just does not make sense. Not everything is, but after paragraphs like that, it's weakens your overall position.

Now. To address the motion requirements of the boots (which I wrote). In my post, I said she pushes off, as in the beginning of a jump. This shifts her momentum in the desired direction, which creates trajectory. That was a valid concern, and so I am pointing out to you the language already present that addresses it.

I am at work right now. I may or may not address more later, but for now, rest assured I intend on making some edits. The edits will adress clarity of action, the effect of the blast, and yes, even some Wounds. I'm not against wounds, I like writing them, they make things much more fun. I hope you appreciate the edits I plan on making, though frankly I'm not sure you will. I will notify you of the edits when made, and after that you may as well go straight to an admin.

 

[Diva]

edits made.

 

[Diva]

I believe the thread limit has expired. Thread ready for ruling!

@GABA GABA HEY @Padmé @Green Ranger @Dmitri

 

[GABA]

Hey folks, sorry for the delay!

After reading this a couple times, I couldn't really concluded that any side gained the upper ground. There was a lot of unnecessary focus on NPCs and other tidbits that I believe you guys got too nitpicky over.

Also as a reminder, posting extensions need to go through admins, 'gentlemen's agreements' have been ruled previously as not a legitimate form of gaining extra time to post.

 

[+SpaceJesus+]

So... What's the verdict guys? I feel like they were half successful in the robbery