A Race to Ryloth OCC

[Mad Dog]

Hey guys, just wanted to check in, is everything good?

 

[EmilyHuene]

I'm kinda upset that you are attacking both my frigate and the shuttles down below. You're blowing up our only big cruiser and now telling me you're going to basically destroy this whole mission bcs he's bombing them before they can even take off. You people can have one or the other. Not both.

 

[210yeti]

I was going to say somethingabout that but I'll leave up to y'all to sort things out.

 

[Mad Dog]

I'm kinda upset that you are attacking both my frigate and the shuttles down below. You're blowing up our only big cruiser and now telling me you're going to basically destroy this whole mission bcs he's bombing them before they can even take off. You people can have one or the other. Not both.

I'm sorry this is just the way things worked out. I'm not sure what you want me to do as of now. The battle has begun, and unfortunately you guys are out gunned.

It's no one's fault, you were just doing what you do, taking slaves, and we were just doing what we do and defending our allies.

Also we've given chances to cease and desist.

 

[Topher Ridge]

Hey so I'm still at work and I'll sit down and get a more detailed response in a bit. I'm going to look at this from both sides for now. Yeah it sucks, we took a risk and it seems we're going to lose big from it. We decided to have an open thread and this kind of curb stomp is a thing that can happen, it's not the first time I've seen it and it certainly won't be the last. The protectorate had every right to come in and battle us.

In the flip side I'd like the protectorate guys to see it from our side. Our flagship is about to be lost to us and yes we could have ceased, though I assume that would lead to capture and we'd still lose our flagship.

That's all I've got for now, we can get into the nitty gritty once I get off work. I think we can work this out and make everyone happy.

 

[Wayrider]

Topher you are the only one engaged, surrender and you will save your corvette and the DRV's, in return we will ransom you back for a complete schematic and materials list for A Hammerhead Corvette. And we will provide a lead as to where to get it, as well as some unofficial assistance.

 

[Deviant]

While I absolutely hate butting into OoC’s that don’t involve me, or anyone that critiques when critique is never asked for, reading this thread and its accompanying story compels me to say something.

To start, I’m confused on as to what’s happening (I'm in the middle of my classes), but here’s what I’m getting so far: Shadow Syndicate is kidnapping civilians as slaves. Protectorate is swooping in to save the day. Protectorate brings in a bundle of star fighters and lay waste to the clearly unprepared Syndicate, who also bring in NPC patrol ships to counter.

So, reading this OoC, I can see that this is the "onset" of a "tactical battle," and that it’s clearly unprepared, unbalanced, and unmoderated. My issue is that I see no indication of troop and unit counts within anyone’s posts, and just by reading each one, it’s clear that this battle isn’t “relatively equal” as it should be, but completely one-sided. Because....

By reading said posts, the Syndicate has: one CZ-MCF01 frigate accompanied by several (presumably unarmed) private shuttles, a luxury CS-MT01 (also unarmed), a CZ-100 light corvette, and 8 DRV-12 light patrol craft. While the Protectorate has: a Tayana-class frigate, two squadrons of Nova-class star fighters, a Shakula-class heavy corvette, a whopping 25 KPDY-Wasp fighters (two fighter squadrons), and a Picketing-class corvette.

Taking units into account (by this thread), the Syndicate has an estimated 85 units, while the Protectorate has an overwhelming 140 units. So, it’s clear this tactical battle has become plainly one-sided and rife with a lack of information on both sides, specifically that of the Syndicate. A naval tactical battle (even if approved by staff after this ruling was made) must allow both sides to be even or, as I said, "relatively equal" (per here).

Hell, even at the beginning of the thread, I can see that this thread was originally not intended to be tactical. And by Topher’s earlier post in this OoC (where he correctly assumed NPC’s cannot be used as an advantage), it looks as if this tactical battle was more forced upon the Syndicate rather than by offer, consent & appropriate agreement, because I don't see anywhere or anyone saying: "Hey, let's do a tactical battle!" And everyone else going: "Sure!" It's just "this is a tactical battle" and only Topher going "wat? sorry had no idea, I'm new to this." I mean, there isn’t even mention of staff mediation anywhere here either.

But, take my word for a grain of salt. I’m no staff myself, and my knowledge on this subject is pretty new, but regardless, I feel that this thread has twisted into a confusing mess and I would personally recommend that both sides just decide to void this thread entirely, so then nobody dies, no slaves are captured, no allies are attacked, and we avoid staff involvement (unless, of course, y'all already secretly consulted staff via Skype or PM and this OoC is a lot deeper than it goes, then I'm just being stupid).

Again, sorry for butting in. I hate backseating, but seeing a good friend get blatantly overwhelmed and distressed kinda makes me just want to jump in, even if it's like, hella taboo. Apologies.

 

[Topher Ridge]

While I absolutely hate butting into OoC’s that don’t involve me, or anyone that critiques when critique is never asked for, reading this thread and its accompanying story compels me to say something.

To start, I’m confused on as to what’s happening (I'm in the middle of my classes), but here’s what I’m getting so far: Shadow Syndicate is kidnapping civilians as slaves. Protectorate is swooping in to save the day. Protectorate brings in a bundle of star fighters and lay waste to the clearly unprepared Syndicate, who also bring in NPC patrol ships to counter.

So, reading this OoC, I can see that this is the "onset" of a "tactical battle," and that it’s clearly unprepared, unbalanced, and unmoderated. My issue is that I see no indication of troop and unit counts within anyone’s posts, and just by reading each one, it’s clear that this battle isn’t “relatively equal” as it should be, but completely one-sided. Because....

By reading said posts, the Syndicate has: one CZ-MCF01 frigate accompanied by several (presumably unarmed) private shuttles, a luxury CS-MT01 (also unarmed), a CZ-100 light corvette, and 8 DRV-12 light patrol craft. While the Protectorate has: a Tayana-class frigate, two squadrons of Nova-class star fighters, a Shakula-class heavy corvette, a whopping 25 KPDY-Wasp fighters (two fighter squadrons), and a Picketing-class corvette.

Taking units into account (by this thread), the Syndicate has an estimated 85 units, while the Protectorate has an overwhelming 140 units. So, it’s clear this tactical battle has become plainly one-sided and rife with a lack of information on both sides, specifically that of the Syndicate. A naval tactical battle (even if approved by staff after this ruling was made) must allow both sides to be even or, as I said, "relatively equal" (per here).

Hell, even at the beginning of the thread, I can see that this thread was originally not intended to be tactical. And by Topher’s earlier post in this OoC (where he correctly assumed NPC’s cannot be used as an advantage), it looks as if this tactical battle was more forced upon the Syndicate rather than by offer, consent & appropriate agreement, because I don't see anywhere or anyone saying: "Hey, let's do a tactical battle!" And everyone else going: "Sure!" It's just "this is a tactical battle" and only Topher going "wat? sorry had no idea, I'm new to this." I mean, there isn’t even mention of staff mediation anywhere here either.

But, take my word for a grain of salt. I’m no staff myself, and my knowledge on this subject is pretty new, but regardless, I feel that this thread has twisted into a confusing mess and I would personally recommend that both sides just decide to void this thread entirely, so then nobody dies, no slaves are captured, no allies are attacked, and we avoid staff involvement (unless, of course, y'all already secretly consulted staff via Skype or PM and this OoC is a lot deeper than it goes, then I'm just being stupid).

Again, sorry for butting in. I hate backseating, but seeing a good friend get blatantly overwhelmed and distressed kinda makes me just want to jump in, even if it's like, hella taboo. Apologies.

I'm totally willing to admit we were unprepared for any type of tactical space battle. I'm not sure but @EmilyHuene, I'm assuming you thought any type of pvp would probably take place on the planet surface between PC am I right?

 

[EmilyHuene]

First off, thank you @Deviant for stepping in. I appreciate someone from outside the circle taking a look at what happened. And I'm sure all four of my people would vote to erase this thread bcs you're right, we weren't prepared. As @Topher Ridge said, a pvp battle could have happened on land. I knew that was a possibility when making it an open thread. But we never asked for some glorious space battle. At this point if all continued the Protectorate would crippled our faction. They're destroying the only big ship we have and several of our smaller ones, not to mention capturing two of our members (though technically @Herrith Hendarsin is freelance). Neither of them would have joined this thread if that was an option. Which is why I put death disabled bcs I didn't expect pvp to break out. They could if they wanted to, say like if someone happens to be on Ryloth and wants to step in. But not like this.

 

[Mad Dog]

I went ahead and contacted the admins regarding the issue. At the beginning of the thread it does state "Please allow all Syndicate members to post before other factions join in" indicating PVP is not only an option, but expected. I don't think you can rule out one type of PVP when in an open thread if it applies to the situation.

Also @Deviant I couldn't find anything in any rules anywhere stating permission needed to be gained beforehand for a tactical battle to occur. Also not in the rules is there a statement of even sided battles, and that kind of ruling wouldn't make sense because in a ground fight even if the Syndicate's units were ambushed by every other member on this site at once it would still stand.

As for troop counts, although they are not blatantly stated, all Protectorate members are well under their 500 unit maximum.

It is an unfortunate situation for the Shadow Syndicate, I will agree to that. But to my knowledge and understanding no rules have been broken. Again as @Deviant said, I am no admin and that is the reason I have just asked them to step in and make a ruling.

 

[Mad Dog]

First off, thank you @Deviant for stepping in. I appreciate someone from outside the circle taking a look at what happened. And I'm sure all four of my people would vote to erase this thread bcs you're right, we weren't prepared. As @Topher Ridge said, a pvp battle could have happened on land. I knew that was a possibility when making it an open thread. But we never asked for some glorious space battle. At this point if all continued the Protectorate would crippled our faction. They're destroying the only big ship we have and several of our smaller ones, not to mention capturing two of our members (though technically @Herrith Hendarsin is freelance). Neither of them would have joined this thread if that was an option. Which is why I put death disabled bcs I didn't expect pvp to break out. They could if they wanted to, say like if someone happens to be on Ryloth and wants to step in. But not like this.

I'm a bit confused, I don't believe anyone has been captured?

 

[210yeti]

@Mad Dog, I'm sure @EmilyHuene was stating if the thread continued the Protecterate would capture the two Syndicate members in board our main vessel.

 

[Mad Dog]

@Mad Dog, I'm sure @EmilyHuene was stating if the thread continued the Protecterate would capture the two Syndicate members in board our main vessel.

As I understand from the thread, the main vessel contains no Syndicate members as @EmilyHuene departed the ship upon the Protectorate's arrival. And the rest were on the planet's surface. Until @Topher Ridge arrived onsite in a new ship.

Unless I'm incorrect.

 

[Arcangel]

So I'm not 100% sure what the situation is here as far as needing an Admin ruling. @Mad Dog @EmilyHuene as leaders of the two affected factions, care to explain?

Also in the situation that I might need to rule, please list the assets being used in the thread by your sides and their point value.

 

[Deviant]

I went ahead and contacted the admins regarding the issue. At the beginning of the thread it does state "Please allow all Syndicate members to post before other factions join in" indicating PVP is not only an option, but expected. I don't think you can rule out one type of PVP when in an open thread if it applies to the situation.

Also @Deviant I couldn't find anything in any rules anywhere stating permission needed to be gained beforehand for a tactical battle to occur. Also not in the rules is there a statement of even sided battles, and that kind of ruling wouldn't make sense because in a ground fight even if the Syndicate's units were ambushed by every other member on this site at once it would still stand.

As for troop counts, although they are not blatantly stated, all Protectorate members are well under their 500 unit maximum.

It is an unfortunate situation for the Shadow Syndicate, I will agree to that. But to my knowledge and understanding no rules have been broken. Again as @Deviant said, I am no admin and that is the reason I have just asked them to step in and make a ruling.

u right tho. I was just purely basing my argument on (unofficial) precedence and what's been said before regarding tactical battles in certain threads. Either way, looks like my only real issue now is just the balancing of both sides (if I had counted and compared correctly, which, believe me, could be super off lol). That is, of course, if balanced sides ultimately don't matter in [Open] tactical battle threads, which I can understand.

Hopefully, a ruling will clear this up soon tho. Anyway, it's best I stop being nosy and go back to lurking around the forum as I'm meant to. Cheers fam.

 

[Mad Dog]

Protectorate ships:
@Mad Dog
1X Tayana class frigate = 50
24X N-51 Nova-class Starfighter = 20
@Wayrider
1X Shukula-class Heavy Corvette = 25
14X KPDY-Wasps = 10
11X N-51 Nova-class Starfighter = 10
@BiggB90
1X Picketing class corvette = 25
Protectorate total troop count: 140

 

[Mad Dog]

Shadow Syndicate ships:
@EmilyHuene
1X Model: CZ-MCF01 =50
1X luxury CZ-MT01 cruiser =?
@Topher Ridge
1X CZ-100 = 25
8X DRV-12 = 10ish?

And an unnumbered amount of unnamed shuttles = probably 0.
An unnumbered amount of Shadow Syndicate Numbers troops = ?

Shadow Syndicate Troop Total = 85ish.

 

[Topher Ridge]

Shadow Syndicate ships:
@EmilyHuene
1X Model: CZ-MCF01 =50
1X luxury CZ-MT01 cruiser =?
@Topher Ridge
1X CZ-100 = 25
8X DRV-12 = 10ish?

And an unnumbered amount of unnamed shuttles = probably 0.
An unnumbered amount of Shadow Syndicate Numbers troops = ?

Shadow Syndicate Troop Total = 85ish.

Yes that would be my best guess, as the DRVs don't have a proper calculation under the unit system. I wouldn't count the luxury cruiser as it doesn't have any weapons.

 

[Mad Dog]

Yes that would be my best guess, as the DRVs don't have a proper calculation under the unit system. I wouldn't count the luxury cruiser as it doesn't have any weapons.

Yea I noted it as a 0.

But it's still present So I wanted to make sure I listed it.

 

[EmilyHuene]

Basically @Arclight this is what happened. I started his thread as a simple snatch and grab for my team. I came in with one frigate and three shuttles. I put the thread as death disabled just so no one would lost their characters. I didn't out no pvp bcs I didn't want to rule out other people doing what they wished. Assuming they talked it over between themselves first. But I hate pvp. I absolutely refuse to partake in it. Exactly for this reason. I never would have agreed to this fight because honestly I suck at it and everyone steps over me bcs of it. I'm here to write. Not fight. So when they bombarded the thread with their replies, I tried to have my ships run away with a loss of profit, everyone goes home safe. What else could I do because I didn't want to engage in fighting. But they pursued and kept saying they blew up my ships. Honestly it isn't fair because they have s full tactical armada and I've got one frigate, until Topher showed up. Sure it's an open thread, but my idea was supposed to be able to have other people join in if they wanted to do whatever they wished on Ryloth even if it meant not even being close to us. I apparently should not have done that because this is what happened. So as deviant suggested, we wipe the thread like it never happened because of my stupid mistake. But if you as a moderator will side with them because they technically didn't break any rules then fine. Blow up my ships and do what you want. I'm not fighting this anymore. I hate pvp. I hate arguments. I hate confrontation. This place is my release from bs like that and I'm not going to have it here.