United States Presidential Election, 2016

Logan · Oct 14, 2016

I'm not going to bother arguing with you. You want to deny simple human rights based upon a religion. That alone makes your entire point up there completely moot.

You are wrong, it's as simple as that.

Brandon Rhea · Oct 14, 2016

Outlander said:
I wouldn't be so sure about that.

As long as Nuclear Weapons exists, the threat exists.

Nuclear weapons have been the deterrent for a third world war. Without them, it likely would've happened by now.

Arian Korzak · Oct 14, 2016

Relent said:
My wife's parents are gay. They raised 2 kids who both grew up to be wonderful adults. This statement is infinitely insulting, and frankly, incredibly stupid.

An insult is a scornful abuse, I did no such thing, you simply took it that way. Insult would be "Incredibly stupid" which is exactly what you did. Their children alone do not define a fruit, a wonderful child can come from a family of killers. That does not negate my statement.

Kaane · Oct 14, 2016

Divorce is actually well worth it. Would you rather be trapped in a marriage where you hate the person you once loved, have all that negativity funnel down to people you talk to (or conversely hold it all in until you burst like an overfilled water balloon), or break off and start anew? Also, I hate to say this, but THINK OF THE CHILDREN. Kids HATE living in environments like that. It scars kids for life when their parents get violent at each other, that's what i mean by dangerous environments. Divorce is a godsend, and the rate of divorce has actually gone down since it spiked when it was first introduced across the country. Divorce is not the problem, it is a much needed solution.

~~adam ruins everything is obviously meaningless liberal propaganda you tool~~

Also, being gay is being selfish? I mean...my boyfriend and I that share quite the love with each other would beg to differ. If it's a selfish sin to love then the entire world is selfish. Also, he was raised by two mothers. And I can guarantee you that even without my rosy-tinted glasses on, he's still one of the greatest people on earth.

Lemme throw my own Christianity into the mix. Jesus said quite wisely that you shall know a tree by its fruit. Both divorce and gay marriage have produced, in my eyes, nothing but good fruit. I'm not in favor of uprooting either tree any time soon.

But let's talk about, really really really religious families. I'm talking Jehovah's Witnesses, fundie Bible Belters, 99% of Iowa, etc.

When problems as a family are approached, one needs to remain flexible. Not every issue can be worked out the same way. Religion in most cases advocates the same solutions to vastly dissimilar problems. And when you're taught that everything can be solved with the Bible and then you realize it can't, that's where serious issues start in religious families. There's no other alternative, your options are limited by your own perception of the world. I believe in the power of religion to heal, but it can also harm greatly when utilized in excess, or a xenophobic, inward-looking perspective is the only perspective one has. It has caused this country as a whole to destroy itself for the most part, both in regards to religious families and with the ultra-regressive/pseudo left. When you wash your mind in dogma, of any kind, that advocates rigidity instead of flexibility, nothing good can come as a result.

Also, to defend what I said about the "traditional family" being useful in some cases, I mean that kids need structure to grow up. You can't just let them do whatever the hell they want and expect them to become adults overnight. Mainly because I was able to do whatever the hell I wanted when I grew up, and now I'm a shithead jerk XD. But also kids need love. And if that love isn't provided they'll grow up to be pretty maladjusted, even if they do everything right. And a framework of parents and extended relatives help provide both structure and love at the same time.

Outlander · Oct 14, 2016

Brandon Rhea said:
Nuclear weapons have been the deterrent for a third world war. Without them, it likely would've happened by now.

It only takes one madman to plunge the entire world into an apocalypse. And I have more faith in one madman taking power than a continued peace.

Outlander · Oct 14, 2016

Arian Korzak said:
An insult is a scornful abuse, I did no such thing, you simply took it that way. Insult would be "Incredibly stupid" which is exactly what you did. Their children alone do not define a fruit, a wonderful child can come from a family of killers. That does not negate my statement.

Uh. You literally just said that a bunch of people should be barred from marriage because they're 'Selfish' and 'Nothing good will come from them' based at least partially on a religion they most likely don't believe or agree with. That's pretty insulting right there.

Arian Korzak · Oct 14, 2016

Relent said:
I'm not going to bother arguing with you. You want to deny simple human rights based upon a religion. That alone makes your entire point up there completely moot.

You are wrong, it's as simple as that.

Nothing is actually that simple. People assume things are simple. I based my statement upon reality, religion is my belief and actions of it. And actually basing something off religion does not "Make it completely moot", it simply makes it based off religion. For instance, most people base their actions off emotions, but that doesn't make their points invalid.

Arian Korzak · Oct 14, 2016

Kaeb said:
Arian ****** hell.

...what does that mean? I'm not used to normal language, sorry.

Arian Korzak · Oct 14, 2016

Outlander said:
Uh. You literally just said that a bunch of people should be barred from marriage because they're 'Selfish' and 'Nothing good will come from them' based at least partially on a religion they most likely don't believe or agree with. That's pretty insulting right there.

You misqouted me. Nothing good will come from the marriage. The fact they do not agree with my religion does not make it wrong, just like the fact a lot of people think that the sun is a planet does not make it one.

Outlander · Oct 14, 2016

Arian Korzak said:
You misqouted me. Nothing good will come from the marriage. The fact they do not agree with my religion does not make it wrong, just like the fact a lot of people think that the sun is a planet does not make it one.

I have facts to back up the Sun being a Sun. Where are your facts for "Nothing good (coming) from the marriage"?

Logan · Oct 14, 2016

Arian Korzak said:
Nothing is actually that simple. People assume things are simple. I based my statement upon reality, religion is my belief and actions of it. And actually basing something off religion does not "Make it completely moot", it simply makes it based off religion. For instance, most people base their actions off emotions, but that doesn't make their points invalid.

"I base my opinion on reality."

"Religion."

LOLOL

Jabonicus · Oct 14, 2016

So what makes your love more "real" than mine?

Arian Korzak · Oct 14, 2016

Kaane said:
Divorce is actually well worth it. Would you rather be trapped in a marriage where you hate the person you once loved, have all that negativity funnel down to people you talk to (or conversely hold it all in until you burst like an overfilled water balloon), or break off and start anew? Also, I hate to say this, but THINK OF THE CHILDREN. Kids HATE living in environments like that. It scars kids for life when their parents get violent at each other, that's what i mean by dangerous environments. Divorce is a godsend, and the rate of divorce has actually gone down since it spiked when it was first introduced across the country. Divorce is not the problem, it is a much needed solution.

~~adam ruins everything is obviously meaningless liberal propaganda you tool~~

Also, being gay is being selfish? I mean...my boyfriend and I that share quite the love with each other would beg to differ. If it's a selfish sin to love then the entire world is selfish. Also, he was raised by two mothers. And I can guarantee you that even without my rosy-tinted glasses on, he's still one of the greatest people on earth.

Lemme throw my own Christianity into the mix. Jesus said quite wisely that you shall know a tree by its fruit. Both divorce and gay marriage have produced, in my eyes, nothing but good fruit. I'm not in favor of uprooting either tree any time soon.

But let's talk about, really really really religious families. I'm talking Jehovah's Witnesses, fundie Bible Belters, 99% of Iowa, etc.

When problems as a family are approached, one needs to remain flexible. Not every issue can be worked out the same way. Religion in most cases advocates the same solutions to vastly dissimilar problems. And when you're taught that everything can be solved with the Bible and then you realize it can't, that's where serious issues start in religious families. There's no other alternative, your options are limited by your own perception of the world. I believe in the power of religion to heal, but it can also harm greatly when utilized in excess, or a xenophobic, inward-looking perspective is the only perspective one has. It has caused this country as a whole to destroy itself for the most part, both in regards to religious families and with the ultra-regressive/pseudo left. When you wash your mind in dogma, of any kind, that advocates rigidity instead of flexibility, nothing good can come as a result.

Also, to defend what I said about the "traditional family" being useful in some cases, I mean that kids need structure to grow up. You can't just let them do whatever the hell they want and expect them to become adults overnight. Mainly because I was able to do whatever the hell I wanted when I grew up, and now I'm a shithead jerk XD. But also kids need love. And if that love isn't provided they'll grow up to be pretty maladjusted, even if they do everything right. And a framework of parents and extended relatives help provide both structure and love at the same time.

You missed what I was trying to say, again. Religion is the solution, every time. These family's that get violent at each other aren't restraining themselves, and aren't being Catholic. Laws and restrictions have always been needed, without them everything falls apart. Religion does this on a moral level. If they disobey the religion than it is THEM at fault, not the religion.

Side note: Also, I'm rationally minded and my emotions are a little foreign to me, so don't ask me directly what I want on an emotional basis, I have compassion but when it comes to me being in a crappy relationship I really just don't care.

Arian Korzak · Oct 14, 2016

Outlander said:
I have facts to back up the Sun being a Sun. Where are your facts for "Nothing good (coming) from the marriage"?

So you can "prove" something true is false? If life was like that I would be a skeptic or a deist, not a Catholic. For the record, a skeptic believes in nothing but their own existence because they can think, everything else may or may not exist. I could "prove" that this is true. Proving a falsehood is rather easy.

Outlander · Oct 14, 2016

I'm not Religious at all. I'm Agnostic Atheist, and that's fine. If you want to believe in something, that's fine. But don't tell me any issue I have in my life is caused by not following a religion. That my moral fiber is somehow lesser because I don't follow a book filled with murder, genocide, and zealotry.

Logan · Oct 14, 2016

Arian Korzak said:
So you can "prove" something true is false? If life was like that I would be a skeptic or a deist, not a Catholic. For the record, a skeptic believes in nothing but their own existence because they can think, everything else may or may not exist. I could "prove" that this is true. Proving a falsehood is rather easy.

Prove god exists.

Outlander · Oct 14, 2016

Arian Korzak said:
So you can "prove" something true is false? If life was like that I would be a skeptic or a deist, not a Catholic. For the record, a skeptic believes in nothing but their own existence because they can think, everything else may or may not exist. I could "prove" that this is true. Proving a falsehood is rather easy.

So...

You can't back up your argument?

Logan · Oct 14, 2016

Outlander said:
I'm not Religious at all. I'm Agnostic Atheist, and that's fine. If you want to believe in something, that's fine. But don't tell me any issue I have in my life is caused by not following a religion. That my moral fiber is somehow lesser because I don't follow a book filled with murder, genocide, and zealotry.

Don't forget rape, slavery and torture.

Arian Korzak · Oct 14, 2016

Relent said:
"I base my opinion on reality."

"Religion."

LOLOL

I do not think laughing counts as a response, except an emotional one which doesn't count.

Arian Korzak · Oct 14, 2016

Outlander said:
I'm not Religious at all. I'm Agnostic Atheist, and that's fine. If you want to believe in something, that's fine. But don't tell me any issue I have in my life is caused by not following a religion. That my moral fiber is somehow lesser because I don't follow a book filled with murder, genocide, and zealotry.

Actually the bible is not so much guidlines as it is a historical book, people always seem to assume we use it as a guidbook. Also, God cannot be (by reason and evidence alone) proven or disproven.

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