Trunk space OOC

[KinkyPrawn]

OOC thread for this thread. @Darasuum @Insalius @DarkSaber

Moving from the Discord chat, what issues did you have with my post, @DarkSaber ?

 

[DarkSaber]

I'm fine with the post itself; main problem is the timing.
I technically already completed the action of drawing the gun. Furthermore, i said in a "friendly way" intending to show that I didn't have a gun hidden under the table... *coughs*
With that established, I directly addressed Kai with my hand outstretched, and his post was next in order. Therefore, he should've posted and responded before Arden.
I think going out of order so as to pull the trigger sooner is not necessarily fair.

 

[DarkSaber]

If you'd like to leave the post as it is, I'm fine, but we'd have to negotiate to the point where i don't get shot or something? :P Just because I have a major problem with the fairness of this.

 

[KinkyPrawn]

I'm fine with the post itself; main problem is the timing.
I technically already completed the action of drawing the gun. Furthermore, i said in a "friendly way" intending to show that I didn't have a gun hidden under the table... *coughs*
With that established, I directly addressed Kai with my hand outstretched, and his post was next in order. Therefore, he should've posted and responded before Arden.
I think going out of order so as to pull the trigger sooner is not necessarily fair.

Arden shooting served to interrupt Xath from drawing at all, his shooting is happening just as Xath starts to draw his weapon. On top of that, Kai also used the force to stop Xath. Whatever happened after that moment basically is no longer relevant since it was entirely interrupted.

As for how Xath drew his gun, that doesn't matter given the situation. He's drawing a pistol without making clear his intentions with a guy that not only dislikes him quite a lot, but who also threatened/warned him flatout. Any normal person would also be quite on edge when a guy just randomly pulls out a gun.

For the posting order, it's an open thread. Posting order doesn't matter all that much for open threads. If you wanna look at it from a pvp standpoint, we still posted in our relevant team blocks.

 

[DarkSaber]

Like i said, you can leave it if you want. Thing is, it wasn't PvP yet. It was a conversation, and I was never intending on starting a fight; it kinda just came out of nowhere and left me with little opportunity to do anything.

Kai was not "intently watching" Xath, and so he wouldn't have noticed the gun necessarily until it was on the table. He was up. It wasn't PvP yet, so "team block" wouldn't be applicable. Even if it's open that doesn't make it fair. I could've said, "Xath moved his hand and the gun flew from Arden's own, before he drew his own lightsaber out and held it at the man's neck."
But i didn't...PvP wasn't instigated yet and that wouldn't have been fair.

I also brought it up with a friend. He said,
"Your post clearly states Xath set the blaster on the table. Arden ACKNOWLEDGES it by saying "its not smart to draw on a mandalorian," but then steps back to just as you're drawing and fires? Seems dodgy to me.
Simply pulling a blaster from a holster and placing it on a table is not drawing on someone. Pointing it at someone still isn't technically. No finger in tringer, can't shoot.
Like, had combat actually started, then maybe. But it's still just at a story telling POV.
If you're going to initiate combat, back-stepping someone else's actions to do it is greasy."

 

[Darasuum]

Please edit your most recent post @DarkSaber . Kai is not using the force to hold Xath in place. He was close enough to the table to have tried setting his holstered blaster on the table and Kai was right there so grabbed him with his actual hand.

 

[DarkSaber]

I think I've made way too big of a deal about this and I apologize, so I'll just (in my own mind :P) let everything stand as it is. I've edited so that he's at the table when he draws the blaster so that @Darasuum's post is valid, and we'll leave it be.
Everyone cool with that?

 

[Darasuum]

Can you edit your post. There is no way anybody can freeze a blaster bolt that is fired from such a short distance let alone when your trying to wrench yourself free from someone holding you by an arm. I would think it's reasonable for him to take a direct hit in the leg in this situation. I'd say considering Arden is using a heavy blaster on his unarmored leg he loses the leg entirely or is grazed enough that he can only use one leg for the rest of the thread and has to get immediate medical attention or get a cybernetic replacement.

Also, how is Xath able to draw a saber as a reaction when he already got shot for trying to draw his blaster? If anything it would take the same amount of time and is reasonable for Kinky to fire another bolt into him and then tanking the 2nd heavy blaster bolt? Reaching for a weapon takes longer than it takes a guy to pull a trigger.

There is still no indication that Kai is a force user either. Unless I'm mistaken he hasn't done anything to make anybody think he can use the force (except Lilith)

 

[DarkSaber]

*Sigh*
I'd have to entirely disagree.
First off, he's got a second hand which is completely unoccupied. Second, there was a "deafening" boom and I think that, given it was the distance of a table, he's be able to suspend it momentarily in order for him to dodge. I think that move is just as fair as going back on a POV post to initiate PvP at an unfair advantage. Furthermore, I had grace and said he was at the table, when beforehand he had to "walk up." Your post (@Darasuum) specifically would've been discarded, and Xath would've had much more time to react. I think you can let this one slide.

Kinky did not have his gun drawn. He was going for it as he shot his first gun. So he'd have to draw it, level it, and pull the trigger in the time Xath uses the force to grab a saber.

Third, you're acting like Xath is a turtle. Your men have already pulled 3 guns and he can't even get a lightsaber out-? By the time Arden has a second gun out, as he's "drawing" it right when I shoot, Xath should be able to do SOMETHING...
In other words, Arden has shot and drawn, Kai has grabbed his hand and drawn AND levelled, and Xath has...sat there? Furthermore, Xath is a Force User. He should be able to react and act incredibly quickly.

I think that, in this thread, we're all going to have to work with each other. If we're going to have PvP, we're going to have PvP, not an argument over why one person should have a weapon and the other shouldn't. For the sake of argument, Xath'll take the bolt to the side of his leg, making it pretty useless for the rest of the thread. After that, I'd appreciate it if Xath is standing in front of the two with both sabers out, his leg injured painfully.

As to him not knowing he's a force user, I'll edit.

 

[KinkyPrawn]

Ok let's break this up.

*Sigh*
I'd have to entirely disagree.
First off, he's got a second hand which is completely unoccupied. Second, there was a "deafening" boom and I think that, given it was the distance of a table, he's be able to suspend it momentarily in order for him to dodge. I think that move is just as fair as going back on a POV post to initiate PvP at an unfair advantage. Furthermore, I had grace and said he was at the table, when beforehand he had to "walk up." Your post (@Darasuum) specifically would've been discarded, and Xath would've had much more time to react. I think you can let this one slide.

The "deafening boom" is the shot being fired, so there isn't exactly a space between the bolt hitting and the shot sounding off. And as stated in your post, all you did was draw your gun. You weren't prepared at all for an attack which is a good example of a surprise attack. And as of your post you were standing right next to it and drawing your weapon to place it on the table. That's when Arden shot. It's not unfair at all unless you count a surprise attack as unfair, which would classify every single assassination, ambush and surprise attack in history as "unfair". Nothing aside from what each character did after Arden shot would have been interrupted and only if his shot interrupted their actions.

If you want an example of a surprise attack in a thread that wasn't pvp at all, go check out this thread where Darth Tagus shanked another sith lord in the back at point blank last timeline. It was basically the same setup at this between two sith lords, and even Darth Parox(according to last tl's rules to be on par with Darth Vader) couldn't see that the attack was coming. And you can see in the OOC(Which I can't find, unfortunately) that Parox's player, Vamp, also tried to argue that he would have been able to see it coming before a staff ruling stated that he couldn't.

Kinky did not have his gun drawn. He was going for it as he shot his first gun. So he'd have to draw it, level it, and pull the trigger in the time Xath uses the force to grab a saber.

Arden was drawing his second pistol while shooting. That is an extremely small window to summon a lightsaber and ignite it. And shooting from the hip is a thing, especially with a pistol at point blank where aiming precisely with sights isn't needed.

Third, you're acting like Xath is a turtle. Your men have already pulled 3 guns and he can't even get a lightsaber out-? By the time Arden has a second gun out, as he's "drawing" it right when I shoot, Xath should be able to do SOMETHING...
In other words, Arden has shot and drawn, Kai has grabbed his hand and drawn AND levelled, and Xath has...sat there? Furthermore, Xath is a Force User. He should be able to react and act incredibly quickly.

Kai is grabbing him when he sees him go for his gun, which happens exactly at the same time Arden shoots. Even force users have their limits. If they can just see things happen before they do, then order 66 wouldn't be a thing. And force users aren't as quick as a blaster bolt at point blank, so him being able to concentrate on suspending a blaster bolt(An incredibly difficult ability, especially for less experienced force users such as most sith at this point in the tl), then moving out of the way while also drawing his lightsaber as well as fighting Kai who's prolly holding on quite tightly, is too good to be true.

I think that, in this thread, we're all going to have to work with each other. If we're going to have PvP, we're going to have PvP, not an argument over why one person should have a weapon and the other shouldn't. For the sake of argument, Xath'll take the bolt to the side of his leg, making it pretty useless for the rest of the thread. After that, I'd appreciate it if Xath is standing in front of the two with both sabers out, his leg injured painfully.

We're trying to work with you but you're flatout refusing to accept that your character was caught off guard. And given the fact that it's a heavy blaster pistol(a weapon shown to literally blow chunks out of walls and shoot right through layers of armour) he'll be in a lot of pain and most likely unable to stand, let alone think clearly enough to still wanna keep fighting. The equivalent would be to basically take a 50 caliber round to the leg. Not exactly the type of thing you shrug off to proceed standing there with both weapons drawn and a clear enough head to continue interacting.

You can take the round to the leg, but reflect the levels of pain and physical effect of it in your character's actions.

 

[Darasuum]

Please drop the attitude. It isn't productive and doesn't help prove your points.

Having an additional hand doesn't mean anything when in shared time you have to deal with how long it still takes to do something.

I can outline the other of events for you.

Arden has his blaster drawn and pointed at xath.
Xath tries to draw his blaster
Kai reaches and grabs Xath's arm and Arden fires

You're trying to go back in time and say that Xath brings up his hand in the short distance he's at from the table. Even if he had been at a distance that is still close quarters inside the bar. Xath's no kylo ren and he even had more space and no interruptions/distractions/ or skeleton boys holding him in place to deal with so freezing a blaster bolt in that shortdistance isn't going to work. Though if you want to say Xath tries to do that and ends up losing a leg that's fine.

If you have an issue with a post you need to bring it up. You've already locked in what has previously happened so there isn't much use arguing about it now.

Arden certainly had his blaster drawn and leveled at Xath from under the table. Inpost # 16

He kept his pistol at the ready below the table, now more out of a desire to drop the Sith than out of security. "Now are you gonna keep botherin' us, or are you gonna kark off?" he asked him, pointing his pistol quite conveniently at Xath's groin. And at point blank range, odds of missing were quite slim.

You posted after with Xath drawing his blaster.

Arden had his blaster pulled out and is in the most recent post pulling out his second and Kai is pulling out his own. Those were written in ways intentionally since the situation was up in the air and things could still change with interruptions. It was only after you posted that it got locked in there and no action was taken to stop them from drawing their weapons and nothing happened to interrupt them.

Pvp has been initiated. If that wasn't clear it was initiated the moment Arden fired pulled the trigger and isn't something that has to be stated like "ok everyone we're doing pvp now". When it happens it happens so not being prepared for is not something you can blame on anybody else when walking into an open thread in a seedy outer rim world with characters that are known for being cut throats and act in an abrasive manner towards them. But that's something that's already been stated.

Getting hit with a heavy blaster at close range without any leg armor means that leg is probably going to get shot off with a direct hit and be useless (until he gets a replacement). Even if he got hit with a medium blaster bolt he wouldn't be able to use it. It's not some flesh wound. Xath would be i agonzing pain and can try to continue to draw weapons with only one functioning leg if you want.

 

[DarkSaber]

I give up.
There is clearly a problem with your posts that I have tried to work with here. If it was me doing this to you, you wouldn't like it.
Furthermore, Xath attempted to draw a gun knowing the Mandalorian had a high chance of shooting him...It was security. I think he wouldn't have been all that surprised.
As for the stasis, exactly, he's not Ren. So he only stopped it momentarily, as in half a second, in order to twist away. Even so, he failed and it glanced off the side of his leg. As it wasn't a direct hit, he shouldn't lose it, but he'll be crippled if he doesn't get treatment soon.
The lightsaber is a long shot, but Xath has got to be faster than Arden so it shouldn't be too controversial.
I'll leave my post as it is, but I'll reflect the pain and physical effect that it has been caused.
I apologize if it seems i have an "attitude," but I cannot hide how frustrated I am over this. Please work with me here.

 

[Darasuum]

If I drew on someone who already had a blaster on me I wouldn't like it. I'd accept it because that's understandable and I'd probably kick myself for making that mistake or acknowledge it and not make that kind of gamble again.

OOC intention and IC action are two different things. Characters are written and understandably expected to stay in character when presented with situations. Otherwise that is literally the definition of being meta.

Please explain exactly how you think Xath can focus on slowing a blaster bolt that is so close when he was intending on presenting himself in a friendly manner yet get surprised by a bolt. You clearly state both IC and OOC you weren't expecting this to happen so there is no reason Xath should be able to slow a blaster bolt down in the time it takes for Arden to pull the trigger and for the bolt to reach Xath's leg. That's godmod and I'm not going to sugar coat it for you. I advise just dropping that attempt outright. If that wasn't enough he was still held (by surprise still) at the wrist by Kai. I can see him trying to wrench himself free, getting shot and then probably falling to the ground with the loss of his leg's usefulness and pain. If you think otherwise please state why you think that clearly and with what reasoning.

 

[DarkSaber]

I can argue that he only stopped it momentarily, as in a quarter of a second, and still failed largely in the attempt.
Nevertheless, I'll edit if it makes it more reasonable.
I attempted to exit the thread, noting that Xath has been defeated and will need a prosthetic or else remain lame for the rest of his life. Hopefully this is acceptable to you two.
Once again, if I was acting out of line I apologize; the situation just frustrated me and I don't like what I say when I'm frustrated. :P
@Darasuum

 

[Darasuum]

His left leg is not usable. Like he should barely be able to stand let alone run away. A heavy blaster bolt that would have taken his leg doing only a glancing hit is very lenient of Kinky but Xath should not be walking so I'd honestly just not even attempt an exit thread. If Xath tried to run he should be falling unless you are going to have him one foot hop.

 

[DarkSaber]

He didn't run, he barely managed to get away from them and around the corner before he had to drag himself with the one leg. The exit thread is just trying to get him out of their line of sight. After that, assuming they don't pursue him for no reason, it wouldn't matter how long it took.
The glancing off the side of his leg was just so that he COULD leave and wasn't stuck on the floor in a heap.
He also was channeling his emotions, the basis of the Dark Side. It should temporarily give him the strength to get around the corner.
Please just let it be? I'm very stressed out rn and I just want to get out of the thread...If I need to, I'll give in to Force Rage so he has the energy to get out. It'll leave him psychologically mad, and I really don't want to go there.
I edited so that his leg gave out after he exited the cantina, and he dragged himself with his arms/hopped. It's established his leg is useless.
@Darasuum

 

[Darasuum]

you're jumping way ahead. You wrote it like we don't get a chance to interrupt. As far as everyone is concerned the only thing that is happening is Xath got shot and is lucky not be flat on his butt with one leg, stumbling his way backwards with two lightsabers.

It's a heavy blaster bolt and you seem to be severely misunderstanding how devastating they are. This is a weapon that would have taken Xath's leg off. He shouldn't even be standing so if you want to try and have him walk that's all your doing, trying and probably tripping and falling unless you want Xath to start one foot hopping towards the door.

This is the situation and begging to not have to deal with the consequences is not appropriate. If you want this to be over then I'd advise just getting shot and losing the leg, falling to the ground rather than present himself to be an even bigger and more notable threat with two lightsabers while there's a bounty out on lightsaber weilders. If anything Xath is escalating the issue further.

 

[DarkSaber]

Me falling on the ground and losing the leg would force me to have to stay in the thread, when my whole deal is I want out.
Also, I understand how much damage they deal. He's going to lose the leg. He barely maintained strength to get out of the bar before he had to practically crawl. His leg is now useless, it just maintained its structure in order to get him out of there.

I also said attempt to leave thread; if you'd like to interrupt I'm cool with it but I'd 100% prefer if you did not. I think losing a leg is a consequence, and I've been defeated. I'm not pleading to ignore the consequences; I'm pleading for you to let me leave the thread.

I've had an extraordinarily sucky day compounded with this mess, and I'd like to take one thing off my mind. In a time like this, I hope you can have some grace even if you disagree.
@Darasuum

 

[Darasuum]

Me falling on the ground and losing the leg would force me to have to stay in the thread, when my whole deal is I want out.
Also, I understand how much damage they deal. He's going to lose the leg. He barely maintained strength to get out of the bar before he had to practically crawl. His leg is now useless, it just maintained its structure in order to get him out of there.

I also said attempt to leave thread; if you'd like to interrupt I'm cool with it but I'd 100% prefer if you did not. I think losing a leg is a consequence, and I've been defeated. I'm not pleading to ignore the consequences; I'm pleading for you to let me leave the thread.
@Darasuum

Please edit so that you clearly state that he only has one usable leg. Your writing as it is does not currently reflect the appropriate amount of damaged recieved.

 

[DarkSaber]

Understood.
Edited, he now has lost complete function of his leg as soon as he stepped out of the cantina.