Star Wars Debates - Clone Troopers

Nor'baal

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A few days ago, a discussion kicked up in one of the Discord Channels around the Clones in Star Wars - so, I thought I would fire it up here and see what debate we can get going. Depending on how well this goes, I may open another question later on - so we can all nerd out together.

The Rules

  • This is a Star Wars topic, and as such real life comparisons cannot be drawn, information from Canon and Legends only please.
  • Stay on Topic. Plz.
  • After one week, a poll will be added and the final tallies taken to see which side of the debate won through.

So, without any further ado:

"Are the Clone Troopers, as they are seen in Episodes 2-3 of Star Wars, and the supporting EU and Legends, applicable for the full rights of a sentient being when the war with the CIS comes to its conclusion?"

This ‘debate’ will take place at the time of the battle of Utapau (hence the GIF), so the ‘End of the War’ seems close at hand - thus making the question more relevant. If you have any questions that would impact the debate, please ask!

Current Considerations

1 - This debate comes from the standing point of the Senate, and as such 'Sentient Being Rights' would be the rights the Senate affords to Sentients.
 

Brandon Rhea

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This is a really compelling question. I think there are two answers to it. One is the strict legal interpretation based on what we know of clone troopers and their relationship to the Republic, and the other is the moral interpretation.

Legally, the clones are the property of the Galactic Senate. They are essentially slave soldiers. They were purchased, developed, and conscripted for only one purpose: to fight a war on behalf of the Republic. At the end of a successful war against the Separatists, the Republic would basically have the right to do whatever it wanted with the clones. That could include giving them full rights, or it could include just getting rid of them somehow.

Morally, the clones are absolutely entitled to the rights of other sentient beings. They are people, and people are not property, and the clones showed that they strived for individuality. Every clone that we met in The Clone Wars showed individuality. These were not just stock soldiers.

I think that moral argument + the long-standing idea and laws about the rights of sentient beings would override a strict legal interpretation of the Republic's contract with Kamino, and would therefore grant clone troopers sentient rights.

Note that this all presumes the public version of events, at the time of the war, was true and that none of this had anything to do with the Sith. Since obviously they were just pawns of the Sith.
 

Nor'baal

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Legally, the clones are the property of the Galactic Senate. They are essentially slave soldiers. They were purchased, developed, and conscripted for only one purpose: to fight a war on behalf of the Republic. At the end of a successful war against the Separatists, the Republic would basically have the right to do whatever it wanted with the clones. That could include giving them full rights, or it could include just getting rid of them somehow.

On this point I would agree - legally they are property, purchased and paid for by the Republic. However, I personally think that (assuming the Republic is as morally corrupt as it is in the films) they would have opted for 'getting rid of them somehow' once that war came to its end, I think in one of the annuals there was a comic which showed some sort of anti-clone plague? Could have used that!

Morally, the clones are absolutely entitled to the rights of other sentient beings. They are people, and people are not property, and the clones showed that they strived for individuality. Every clone that we met in The Clone Wars showed individuality. These were not just stock soldiers.

Completely agree. That being said, in my opinion, the Clones would be too dangerous to keep around once the war came to its natural end. What would a Clone Army actually do when the war ended? I mean, that in itself is a whole separate issue - however, building on y earlier point, I doubt the Republic would allow them to do anything other than serve as members of the armed forces. (More on this later)

I think that moral argument + the long-standing idea and laws about the rights of sentient beings would override a strict legal interpretation of the Republic's contract with Kamino, and would therefore grant clone troopers sentient rights.

Note that this all presumes the public version of events, at the time of the war, was true and that none of this had anything to do with the Sith. Since obviously they were just pawns of the Sith.

Finally, this is a point I disagree on. I do not think the Senate in SW would allow the giving of rights to clones in full, instead I reckon that they would grant partial rights, and once the war finished, would continue to to force them to serve in the army and police. In the later days of the War, Clones of the Coruscant Guard often support the Coruscant Police, and the Senate Guard - a good precursor to them taking over more and more duties as time goes on.

With the mistrust war-like droids would have been held in following the end of the war, I think it would be easy (but not morally right) for the Republic to recommend the Clones be granted limited rights, in return for them serving as Police, Senate Guard, Civil Service and Soldiers. The alternative, as in 'emancipation' would mean settling the Clones somewhere and then (assuming they are unable to have children) being lumbered with millions of rapidly aging men who are bred only for war.

The easiest solution? Release the Anti-Clone Virus?
The most likely solution? Force them to continue serving.
The best and most humane solution? Allow them to settle with full sentient rights afforded.
 

KaiserMelech

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As we have seen from Cut Lawquane and dishwasher Gregor, clones are more than capable of a life outside the army. Just let them go out into the world with the full knowledge that they age twice as fast as everyone else and will be gone soon enough.
 

The Captain

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I don't understand how Clones can be essentially slave soldiers despite the Republic outlawing slavery.
 

Topher Ridge

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I don't understand how Clones can be essentially slave soldiers despite the Republic outlawing slavery.

Essentially this point goes to show you how morally corrupt the Republic had become in it's waning years in my opinion. The powers that be were so desperate to retain their political power and positions that they sunk to using a slave army to accomplish it and then the Jedi went right along with it!

Though to the debate topic proper I'd say say, like Brandon before, legally the clones have no right to the same rights as other sentient species. They are a product that was bought to fulfill a single purpose, war against the CIS. Once that war is concluded I honestly would assume they'd be shipped back to Kamino to be decommissioned and to wait out the rest of their shortened life spans or put to some other use, such as security law enforcement or hell even given to the Jedi to join the Agricorps.

Now morally of course they deserve the same rights as any other sentient, but I don't think they'd ever actually be granted them under the Senate at the time. As far as distrust for droids go, I believe it was stated a few times in EU material that many people of the galaxy regarded the clone troopers as, essentially meat droids. It was even stated that the clones had been genetically modified to be more obedient and accept orders without question. Not even all the Jedi considered the clones fully sentient, such as Pong Krell. So I don't think their would honestly be enough overall approval of the general populace much less the senate to give the troopers sentient rights.

I don't think they would honestly even be given partial rights either as I said above that would just get in the way of the clones being put to some other use in my opinion. No need to feel guilty about using them to grow crops or protect senators when they have no rights to worry about.
 
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