Outside the Emperor's Gaze OOC

[Apollyon]

@Ecclessey
So I am not setting this up because of a report but so we can discuss something publicly really fast. (This thread has gone extremely smoothly and I am really enjoying it so far!) So, in our last posting round Ruin deflected the first bolt you sent his way, the snowstorm intensified to near blinding standards, Ruin moved to his right (your character's left), and then performed a lightsaber throw to impale the legs of your character. In your post, DeWitt moves forward, fires five shots towards HIS right and then towards HIS left, then the deflected blaster bolt hits him in the chest as he is walking forward.

What I wanted to discuss is the firing rate on semi automatic blaster pistols in Star Wars and look at them in comparison to real life pistols. There are some pistols that are developed in the future (compared to our timeline) that have a rate of fire that would be considered on par with our semi automatic firing rate (Jango Fett's Westar-35 blaster pistols.) However, I asked about for opinions to be gathered about the topic (not rulings) and from what I have gathered, a five shot volley at a blaster's PEAK firing rate would take ABOUT three seconds as their cycling rate isn't as fast as our firing rate is in real life.

As your character is firing towards his right, then towards his left (where Ruin is), I don't think that actually interrupts or negates my post. I agree that the change in your character's positioning would cause the lightsaber throw to miss but I don't think it would stop the hilt from returning to Ruin outright. To compound another fact, I think the blaster bolt deflected would return to DeWitt between his second and third or third and fourth shot in his initial volley. This is due to our relative positioning which is roughly twenty meters per my last post, so at a travel time of 35 meters per second it would reach DeWitt in roughly a second.

This by no means counters your post but this is just what I have gathered from opinions of others and my own. Again, I asked for no rulings or anything, I just wanted to discuss these things with you and see your opinion(s) and develop something we can both agree upon!

 

[Apollyon]

Side note: I might not be able to post until Saturday evening, I will try to post up tonight but in the event I don't get everything posted, I will ask for an extension!

 

[Eccles]

The shots that go towards Ruin, which he'll need to deflect, should break his focus on the lightsaber hilt. It would then go out of its arc and land somewhere in the snow. I don't think current canon can let you keep focus on the hilt you can't see and keep control of it with the Force throughout several other actions and focus points.

As for the timing of the blaster shots and the deflected bolt: Yeah, I suppose the bolt could hit DeWitt while he's shooting, but the objective is to break focus and not deliver a kill shot and I think having the bolt hit during him shooting won't change that fact. Additionally, five trigger pulls in three seconds should be enough for what he's intending to do (as Ruin's actions aren't instantaneous either).

 

[Apollyon]

I agree, Ruin's actions aren't instantaneous either. However, the first shots he fires are in the wrong direction, which means for three seconds Ruin's actions aren't interrupted in the slightest. In my opinion, that is more then enough time for the hilt to return to Ruin given the velocity it was traveling at.

 

[Apollyon]

@GABA the Hutt gonna need an extension for Saturday evening if possible.

 

[GABA]

Extension granted through 11 PM Saturday, central time.

 

[Eccles]

@GABA the Hutt @Arclight @Phoenix I'm also requesting an extension due to IRL.

 

[Phoenix]

@Ecclessey @Apollyon Can one of you please post the screenshots of the OOC discussion from Discord regarding your most recent report. And in the future, please use the public OOC here if you think it's going to come down to a ruling

 

[Eccles]

It's spoilered below :)

Spoiler: Discord

Ecclessey - Yesterday at 5:24 PM
hey mate, I can't make head or tails out of your post. Can you givr me a summary and clarify
Apollyon - Yesterday at 5:24 PM
Okay, I’m at work so it might take me a second
Basically, Ruin sees the shots you are firing in the wrong direction, uses it to track movement and the original deflection solidifies DeWitt’s position when it strikes him
During that time he utilizes the lightsaber crystal’s presence in the force (something that is confirmed canon thanks to clone wars) to finish just pulling it to him. Deflects shots, moves back to the side and just resets basically
He’s kiting and waiting it out for a moment to strike
Ecclessey - Yesterday at 5:36 PM
Seems a lot for three seconds
Apollyon - Yesterday at 5:37 PM
Finishing up the pull takes place while he is shooting in the wrong direction and I think just just let’s the pommel of the hilt bump into him and fall into the snow
Deflects the shots towards where he thinks DeWitt is based upon his movements
Calls the saber to his hand and moves once the shots are deflected
Deactivating his lightsaber and such once he isn’t threatened
Ecclessey - Yesterday at 5:39 PM
You do realize three seconds isn't a lot of time, right?
Apollyon - Yesterday at 5:41 PM
Yes but the lightsaber was already in motion and the arc was nearly finished, so finishing its trajectory and letting it bounce off the chest wouldn’t require much time either. Especially since Ruin isn’t picking it up until AFTER his defense
There is also aim adjustment and travel time for the bolts which means the first bolt would hit ruin’s position in about 1.5-2 seconds given bolt speed to distance between characters
So in total you are looking at 3 seconds of shooting the wrong way, half a second to a second for aim adjustment, half a second to three fourths a second of bolt travel
Ecclessey - Yesterday at 5:55 PM
and you're aware of when Sey started shooting? Because that's during you initial movement, not afterwards. So those first shots will more likely happen while you Force throw your lightsaber and move. That's lost time, which you did not account for.
Apollyon - Yesterday at 5:56 PM
Those shots were also fired in the wrong direction, and if that’s the case your post doesn’t necessarily stop the throw, the movement causes the saber to miss but the shots are initially fired in the wrong direction
So it would continue in it’s trajectory and finish in the same manner, Ruin is simply increasing its velocity slightly to accomplish that faster
Ecclessey - Yesterday at 5:57 PM
I dont say it stops the throe
Apollyon - Yesterday at 5:57 PM
Pommel hits his chest and falls into the snow, he deflects, then he moves
Ecclessey - Yesterday at 5:57 PM
but it wont complete a trajectory in less than two seconds
Apollyon - Yesterday at 6:08 PM
Sorry, it got busy one minute
Apollyon - Yesterday at 7:23 PM
Okay so, DeWitt is firing as Ruin moves post deflection. However, I’d agree that the lightsaber trajectory wouldn’t finish if the blade was spinning due to wind resistance slowing its momentum/velocity. However, Ruin’s blade is coming in like a spear meaning it is cutting through the air with minimal resistance, allowing it to travel faster. That being said, if he is firing as Ruin moves he’d be firing as Ruin sends his lightsaber out per my original post.
Ruin deflects, then deactivates, moves, and sends his secondary lightsaber in the arc the deactivation, movement, and throw occurring in the same timeframe
Meaning the original shots, around mid volley would “hit” nothing around the same time Ruin’s saber reached where DeWitt was
Increasing the velocity would shave a bit of time off the return, so the lightsaber pommel would bounce off Ruin around the same time DeWitt was about to open fire, giving Ruin with his active blade enough time, albeit narrowly imo to raise his defenses.
Ecclessey - Yesterday at 11:47 PM
Aight, I've reported the post. I think a ruling here will set some clear rational boundaries that can only benefit the thread.
Apollyon - Yesterday at 11:54 PM
That’s fine with me :smiley:

No screenshots, because I'm stupid and can't figure it out.

 

[Apollyon]

I gotchu

Spoiler: images

View attachment 4705 View attachment 4706 View attachment 4707

 

[Phoenix]

So, yeah, as it stands, there's not really enough time to do everything that's being done here.

The big thing here is that there isn't time for Ruin to 1) identify the gunshots 2) pull his flying saber back 3) activate his other saber 4) and deflect the gunshots all within the span of less than a second. If he wants to be able to deflect the gunfire he's not going to have time to recover that flying lightsaber

@Apollyon @Ecclessey

 

[Apollyon]

That's fine, although DeWitt is initially firing in the wrong direction, five shots in that direction and then another five blindly in Ruin's direction. I spoke with Loco (he said this was not a ruling but his personal opinion, to add that disclaimer) and he agreed due to the technology being far less advanced then in the prequels it would take 3 seconds at maximum firing speeds to discharge a five shot volley. So three seconds of firing in the wrong direction, adjusting aim to fire in the other direction, then bolt travel time would leave Ruin with about 3.5-4 seconds to interact correct?

Not arguing the ruling, just trying to clarify every detail while we have your attention. So I know the exact time frame and the constraints I am working within.

 

[Phoenix]

DeWitt fired a total of five shots, not ten. There were not five shots fired in the wrong direction

 

[Apollyon]

I misread, that is my fault. I will get some edits up either tonight or tomorrow night!

 

[Loco]

That's fine, although DeWitt is initially firing in the wrong direction, five shots in that direction and then another five blindly in Ruin's direction. I spoke with Loco (he said this was not a ruling but his personal opinion, to add that disclaimer) and he agreed due to the technology being far less advanced then in the prequels it would take 3 seconds at maximum firing speeds to discharge a five shot volley. So three seconds of firing in the wrong direction, adjusting aim to fire in the other direction, then bolt travel time would leave Ruin with about 3.5-4 seconds to interact correct?

Not arguing the ruling, just trying to clarify every detail while we have your attention. So I know the exact time frame and the constraints I am working within.

I specifically told you in our conversation that anything we discussed was purely personal opinion, not a ruling, since I do not have the authority to make those. I ALSO specifically said that if you had any issues with Eccelessys post you needed to discuss it with him in an OOC thread. Tech issues in PvP are purely handled by Clayton, which for some reason I have to keep reminding people of, even though the rules and every statement Korvo and I ever make is very clear on the matter. Finally, the word i used when talking about potential fire rates was "MAYBE".

So, in the future, I would appreciate you not dragging my name into OOCs that I have no involvement with, in a capacity that I have no responsibility for, whIle misrepresenting something I said as some sort of semi-official source of information

 

[Apollyon]

I stated that it was your personal opinion and not a ruling in my post. In no way did I state that you had made a ruling just the information that was given to me was your opinion. I apologize if I offended or upset you that I put your name on it. However, my edits are made.

 

[Eccles]

@Apollyon @Arclight @Phoenix

Considering we're already at the two week mark and we probably won't get more than two posts in before the thread deadline, and reading the following section of the rules:

Subsection A: The default parameters for main faction combat (i.e. skirmishes, duels, battles, ambushes, etc.) consist of a three (3) week (for 1v1 combat) or four (4) weeks (for 2v2 or more) time period from start of thread to end of thread (sign-ups do not affect this time limit). In the event of an ambush or skirmish occurring mid-way through a thread, the time limit begins at the onset of combat. Unofficial battles may extend time periods if rest of party agrees.

I'd like to extend the OOC time of this thread to when it is concluded, so we don't have to bother with the overall deadline (but will keep the individual post deadline).

 

[Apollyon]

Typically I'd agree, but I have some plots already steamed out and ready to go, people are waiting to see how this thread concludes to see if they are able to do them. With the timeline coming to an end I would prefer to get this thread wrapped up so I can let them know to either make new plans or that we can begin the ones that are already set up.

 

[Eccles]

@Apollyon are you autohitting when you're deflecting Sey's third shot? Can you please clarify on your actions?

Also, next time I'd appreciate an "edits made" message.

 

[Apollyon]

No, you can dodge them. I’m saying if DeWitt doesn’t dodge the hits would likely be fatal.

Also, my bad.