A Return to Free(Form) for SWRP

MasterTyvokka

I have a bad feeling about this...
SWRP Writer
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,124
Reaction score
189
There's a few of us sort of waiting on the sidelines to see how this all pans out. And I think with the plots system and everything everyone's a bit unsure on how to move forward as well, but transition periods are always a bit messy - especially a ruleset change in the middle of a timeline.

It's only been two weeks since this was announced, and the announcement was a vague sort of 'this is the direction we want to go', not a definite 'this is how things are going to change', so there's a lot to work out yet before the rules are implemented, I imagine.

Would it be beneficial to create a discussion thread to talk about these issues from a community feedback side of things?

That's kinda what I figured. I've got some ideas I'm itching to roll with so thought It couldn't hurt to ask.

Probably a good idea to wait anyways to see exactly how the new rules pan out because if there are still approvals needed in certain areas I may have to bow out. Not that I have a problem with them it's just a time thing for me. Plus won't do me any good if it feels like a chore, I've got enough of those, haha.

Personally, I don't think a discussion thread is a bad idea. Although this has already turned into one as these things inevitably do.

This is probably the longest I've been back to SWRP daily for years.

Same!
 

Green Ranger

Veterenest Member
SWRP Writer
SWRP Supporter
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
20,984
Reaction score
2,739
Probably a good idea to wait anyways to see exactly how the new rules pan out because if there are still approvals needed in certain areas I may have to bow out. Not that I have a problem with them it's just a time thing for me. Plus won't do me any good if it feels like a chore, I've got enough of those, haha.

Just quoting this for emphasis, because I agree with this like....180%.
 

Johnnysaurus Rex

Infinity & Beyond
SWRP Writer
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
9,804
Reaction score
225
Yeah, part of the appeal for coming back is I have a lot of downtime at work. It's not a terribly involved job depending the position I am working during the night, but I still need to be able to respond to other things. The least amount of stuff to flit with between me and being able to engage in the RP the better.
 

Malon

Veteran Member
SWRP Writer
SWRP Supporter
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
5,401
Reaction score
3,075
I think this whole thing about sub-accounts is honestly ridiculous. I've been around since 2010. I remember the site before and after sub-accounts. I also remember when some did it and some didn't. It was atrocious, and the site has aesthetically looked much better since the switch to sub-accounts being required. A plethora of RP sites use and require sub-accounts now with far bigger member bases, and much less character restrictions than SWRP. So the notion that the site will somehow disintegrate into a thousand pieces if it keeps sub-accounts is frankly ridiculous. Sub-accounts help with emersion, they help to distinguish speakers, and they're handy in a roleplay because they contain all the necessary links without either party having to dig.

They are also not particularly difficult to make or maintain. They are linked to the primary account and switched in and out of with the click of a button. The only time they require adjustment after that is if a character switches factions, but that was always going to require some staff involvement. Most new RPers coming to the site are going to know this since, again, more and more RP sites are requiring them.

I think those of you who are older and are returning need to consider that the site has evolved since you last RPed here. There is a newer member base who have been around for years and like the way the site is currently set up—mostly because they voted on and implemented those changes. Sov, Johnny, and Boli, it has been years since any of you have actively roleplayed here and while I and the others would love to have all of you back, it is really rude and disrespectful to come barging back on to the site demanding people "fix shit right now" or else you won't rejoin. I mean no disrespect, but how about getting involved and becoming active members of the site again before you go making demands? I'm sure the members who make up the current pool of active users wouldn't appreciate their site being redesigned to accomodate a few people who haven't been active members or contributed to anything in years.
 
Last edited:

Nefieslab

Story Mod
Story Moderator
Joined
Dec 15, 2017
Messages
4,281
Reaction score
2,000
New to this announcement thread - I saw it when it first came out, looked it over, gave a dorkly-Sonic "Huh, neat" and went about my day etc etc

Come back to it after realizing it's now 5 pages long and it's turned into a running discussion on the pros and cons of Sub-Accounts, of all things. Decided I better add my two cents in.

About the initial announcement?

Huh, neat. Sounds like it might be fun

Now onto the sub-account nostalgia complaints. Put simply; I don't get the problem. What is so hard about sub-accounts that makes them worth griping about for three pages?

Main arguments I've heard aren't compelling either.

That it's dense and impenetrable for newcomers and yet it seems to have worked fine for years and, in fact, improved over the course of those years and the only people complaining are those who remember the "good old days". Don't see newer people complaining about them, so far all I see are people who stopped posting literal years ago demanding things change if we want to see them come back. I don't speak for anyone but myself but I couldn't give a shite if you don't come back if you're this crappy about a feature you don't like.

That it's something forced on people as if structure is inherently a bad thing. It's not great to have roleplaying itself overly structured but having a uniform framework around it is pretty great. It's not like the profiles you make are even hard to do - the process has been streamlined and the character profiles are easy to fill out in half an afternoon even if you need to keep coming back to it later. If it had a word requirement, sure, or complex coding but it's literally buttons and following along a guide made out of pictures.

That it should be optional. This one is dumb to me, I can't pretend otherwise. Just off the top of my head it's got potential for abuse as well since if I wanted to I could write a post entering a thread with my Nefieslab account and make sure I am creative in my entrance. If I don't use the name of my character then what's to stop me from deciding, halfway through the thread depending on circumstances, that I'm actually playing my Jedi dressed in disguise rather than my Ranger character and me using blasters all the way through was just part of that disguise? How do you police that? Are you going to go to an admin and cry because you thought I was playing another character? Do admins then need to rule on what counts as being artistic/creative writing vs your reading comprehension?

Sounds restricting to me.

And beside that another problem I have with the very idea of threads with Main-Accounts rather than Sub-Accounts? One that would bug me to no end? I don't want to be trying to have a serious moment in-character only to look up and see some shite little gif of some guy's waifu twirling around. If I wanted to see that I'd go OOC - IC I want to engage with a character and a writer's writing. If sub-accounts somehow go against how RP is fun and creative then what does that make that sparkle-shite?

Honestly though, if having to making a sub-account violently offends you, gets you threatening to never come back or spend days arguing the point against them then you've got issues that playing a roleplay aren't going to fix. Maybe see if you can book an appointment with someone - is @GABA taking those?
 

Rom

Active Member
SWRP Writer
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
3,337
Reaction score
242
I haven't really roleplayed on the site much since the 5th Timeline. I'll make a character, do a few threads and then RL stabs me in the back and I'm back to lurking. A sub account has never been a barrier to me RPing a character. A simple profile posted and the 2 minute process to set the sub account with the link and an avatar is all it takes.

I dont understand the insistence that the sub accounts are a barrier to the roleplay. They keep things clean and contained, they are more immersive, and they give me as a writer an easy way to keep track of my ongoing threads as a specific character without getting cluttered with alerts from others. I honestly think that a larger barrier to RP is the approvals process and plots, something I know is under discussion, and by hyperfocusing on the sub account set up which - I cannot stress enough - is the work of minutes we are ignoring the chance to discuss actual barriers for members to get involved in the story, whether they be old timers returning or lurkers who don't have as much free time to devote to the site but would like to be more involved and feel like their being involved can actually matter.
 

Ediwa

Godspeed
SWRP Writer
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
285
Reaction score
86
Tbh sub accounts might only seem hard because literally there is a guide with pictures, step by step. It is just as easy as a registration anywhere. Just provide the link.

This tl I wasn't even allowed to create a non-fs character who worked around Sith because tHEn ThE fACtiON neEDs tO chAnGE. What I'd like to see is less restrictive plot/character moderation, which was already mentioned two weeks ago. Now waiting.
 

Green Ranger

Veterenest Member
SWRP Writer
SWRP Supporter
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
20,984
Reaction score
2,739
I'm not going to waste much time on responding to some of the above posts because I think they're a massive overreaction.

Noone is storming in demanding things. Literally, the site has announced things need to change, and we've chimed in on things we'd like to see change because we think they would benefit the site and the RP.

Feedback. That's literally all we're providing. Three pages of discussion is nothing.

Please calm down.

EDIT: Also noone suggested removing sub-accounts.
 

Brandon Rhea

Story Crafter
Administrator
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
67,934
Reaction score
3,819
Just to put this conversation to bed.

We've decided to keep sub-accounts as mandatory (and to be clear, in case there was any confusion, removing them entirely was never on the table). People are obviously very passionate about them so that's not something we'd want to change right now. As a caveat though, and I do share the concerns about them being a potential barrier to entry, we will make sure to monitor site activity, new member activity, etc as we shift into the new (old?) freeform system to see if there are any negative impacts.

We're basically going to be changing/removing almost everything from the last few years beyond mandatory sub-accounts, so if we see any activity issues then we will re-assess whether mandatory sub-accounts are a good idea.
 

Johnnysaurus Rex

Infinity & Beyond
SWRP Writer
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
9,804
Reaction score
225
I think those of you who are older and are returning need to consider that the site has evolved since you last RPed here. There is a newer member base who have been around for years and like the way the site is currently set up—mostly because they voted on and implemented those changes. Sov, Johnny, and Boli, it has been years since any of you have actively roleplayed here and while I and the others would love to have all of you back, it is really rude and disrespectful to come barging back on to the site demanding people "fix shit right now" or else you won't rejoin. I mean no disrespect, but how about getting involved and becoming active members of the site again before you go making demands? I'm sure the members who make up the current pool of active users wouldn't appreciate their site being redesigned to accomodate a few people who haven't been active members or contributed to anything in years.

I think characterizing our disagreement with sub-accounts as "rude and disrespectful" is really dismissive. Especially when I think we've all been pretty respectful in talking about the accounts with everyone here. Many times in my posts about it I've said we should keep them in a non-mandated capacity. The idea that we're also "barging" back in here to make demands is incredibly gatekeep-y. It's an open site and I heard news the administration was looking at changing aspects that have been barriers to entry for me coming back for the last few years. So I was excited to get a chance to come back and talk about those changes. I also don't get the "we won't join" part of your post either. Sure, some of us have said that we wouldn't be super jazzed about coming back if certain aspects stuck around, but I really don't see any of us trying to use it as some malicious bargaining chip. Especially when I REALLY don't think that would sway anybody.

I do not see what is disrespectful or demanding about asking the site just open up another facet to make things less restrictive which is already in the spirit of this Freeform change. The site wouldn't even have to be redesigned, some members would just be posting in RPs under their main account. If you don't like that type of play then just keep playing with those members who want to organize things that way. We are asking nothing of you, you would not have to change a thing.


That it should be optional. This one is dumb to me, I can't pretend otherwise. Just off the top of my head it's got potential for abuse as well since if I wanted to I could write a post entering a thread with my Nefieslab account and make sure I am creative in my entrance. If I don't use the name of my character then what's to stop me from deciding, halfway through the thread depending on circumstances, that I'm actually playing my Jedi dressed in disguise rather than my Ranger character and me using blasters all the way through was just part of that disguise? How do you police that? Are you going to go to an admin and cry because you thought I was playing another character? Do admins then need to rule on what counts as being artistic/creative writing vs your reading comprehension?

Sounds restricting to me.

This has never been a problem in the past. It wouldn't be going forward.


And beside that another problem I have with the very idea of threads with Main-Accounts rather than Sub-Accounts? One that would bug me to no end? I don't want to be trying to have a serious moment in-character only to look up and see some shite little gif of some guy's waifu twirling around. If I wanted to see that I'd go OOC - IC I want to engage with a character and a writer's writing. If sub-accounts somehow go against how RP is fun and creative then what does that make that sparkle-shite?

Then don't play with that person (which as the only person with said style of signature I can see in this thread means me). I mean it's a really shallow reason to me personally, but your enjoyment of the site is your enjoyment of the site. I understand people have gotten immersed with the current system, but I just can't relate to that. Which is why I say we keep the sub-account system around. You will inevitably play with the same people you already do because I'm sure they feel just as strongly as the rest of you do and if they don't they'll just RP with people posting from their main account while you get to keep playing with them.


Honestly though, if having to making a sub-account violently offends you, gets you threatening to never come back or spend days arguing the point against them then you've got issues that playing a roleplay aren't going to fix. Maybe see if you can book an appointment with someone - is @GABA taking those?

Again with the "threatening". SWRP has nothing to lose by me or older members not coming back. I've been on here for days discussing the idea of changing how sub-accounts would work for some members of the community because I was on this site for about 10 years and am excited to potentially be a part of it again. I came back each day not to argue, but to just start getting involved in the easiest way I can.

I also just don't get the hostility in saying I seek counseling for something that I think we've all been civilly discussing to this point. I don't get any of the hostility from the two posts I've quoted above. I understand you folks have been keeping the lights on for some time now and I do greatly appreciate that. I really do. What I don't necessarily appreciate is coming back to the site and being told I am being rude and disrespectful for just asking what further things could be changed in address to boost member activity. That's not even a "I've been here X number of years thing", since to some of you I may as well be a new member.

I'm glad you guys feel so passionately about this. I'm just sorry you chose to express it in this way.
 

Brandon Rhea

Story Crafter
Administrator
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
67,934
Reaction score
3,819
Let's move on from the sub-account issue. Definitely think we've reached the conclusion here and I don't want this thread to get anymore unnecessarily tense as it already is.
 

Johnnysaurus Rex

Infinity & Beyond
SWRP Writer
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
9,804
Reaction score
225
Sorry, was typing that post before I saw yours. Wasn't intending to keep pushing the issue.

Were there any ideas to promote more Open threads. I get the appeal of Ask/Invite to keep a group of RPers together, but was wondering if it was on the table with the idea of more Freeform style and stepping away from the in place Plot System. Maybe things like community event threads?
 

MasterTyvokka

I have a bad feeling about this...
SWRP Writer
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,124
Reaction score
189
I've been curious about the open threads and community events as well. Some of my favorite threads have been community events. Character's reactions to Andraste's klling thousands of her own people and the battle threads in the sixth timeline being some of them. Definitely looking forward to the possibility of more.

It sounds simple but I think one of the best ways to encourage open threads is just to start them. I think the more there are the more folks are likely to start. Actually looking at the story board right now there are a decent few. I've been tossing around ideas in my head for a thread to get my character into a faction (depending on exactly what happens with the whole freeform thing) and the thread could actually be good fodder for an open thread...hmm something to think about.
 

Lavi

Join Smash Brothers already!
SWRP Writer
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
16,062
Reaction score
132
It sounds simple but I think one of the best ways to encourage open threads is just to start them. I think the more there are the more folks are likely to start. Actually looking at the story board right now there are a decent few. I've been tossing around ideas in my head for a thread to get my character into a faction (depending on exactly what happens with the whole freeform thing) and the thread could actually be good fodder for an open thread...hmm something to think about.
The way you phrase it sounds like it could be a case of Open threads getting drowned in the sea of Ask threads. Separating Open and Ask threads into different sections could help. The format of the site does generally favor progressing your character, which is easier to control in Ask. (EDIT: wow, let me just ramble)
 

Johnnysaurus Rex

Infinity & Beyond
SWRP Writer
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
9,804
Reaction score
225
The way you phrase it sounds like it could be a case of Open threads getting drowned in the sea of Ask threads. Separating Open and Ask threads into different sections could help. The format of the site does generally favor progressing your character, which is easier to control in Ask. (EDIT: wow, let me just ramble)

Yeah, I like this. Lets more threads occur where the player who just has an open concept, but no plan for character focus, can post it and have a higher chance of findings randos to have fun with while the closed section allows for the tighter narrative stuff to not overwhelm it.
 
Last edited:

MasterTyvokka

I have a bad feeling about this...
SWRP Writer
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,124
Reaction score
189
The way you phrase it sounds like it could be a case of Open threads getting drowned in the sea of Ask threads. Separating Open and Ask threads into different sections could help. The format of the site does generally favor progressing your character, which is easier to control in Ask. (EDIT: wow, let me just ramble)

That's not what I intend but that's definitely a possibility that they get lost. My only concern about separating the two into sections is it might cause open threads to become even less of a thing. Its happened with neutral zone getting their own boards and I could see it happening here. Maybe, since plots are likely going away, the open tab could be made blue again or some other bright color just so it stands out more.

Agree with you on ask threads being better for character development.



Another possible option for encouraging open threads is to have frequent community events. I am not sure what staff load will be like once the change happens but one possibility is each main faction leader could be responsible for putting on an event once a month. It wouldn't have to be only for that faction. It could also be rotated between each faction leader. So if there are 3 main factions, a faction leader only has to come up with an event every 3 months.

Not sure practical that idea is in reality though.
 

Green Ranger

Veterenest Member
SWRP Writer
SWRP Supporter
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
20,984
Reaction score
2,739
One idea I had was that in lieu of the plots system or anything, if you feel like a thread is going too smoothly, or want to spice things up somehow, you could ask an admin and they'd come in and announce that, for example, suddenly there's an avalanche, or suddenly some pirate raiders are attacking or something like that.

I mean I know fighting NPCs is rarely exciting, but it's about reacting to a sudden, unexpected change of circumstances, and there's a lot of character work that can go into responding to any sort of crisis or change of events.

And it doesn't always have to be an emergency or a bad thing. Maybe someone won big at the swoop track and decides to buy everyone a round of drinks. How do you react to that? Do you celebrate with him? Do you decide to rob him? Do you sit in your corner, enjoy the drink and continue brooding away like a knock-off Aragorn? Its your choice.

Also since its a single post, its light on work for any staff members. Like the post can be as simple as 'DM: Suddenly there's a rockslide.' and its up to you to build on that change of circumstances and create a believable scene with plausible reactions and the like.
 
Top