A Return to Free(Form) for SWRP

Johnnysaurus Rex

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Which I'm glad some members like that system, but I feel like those features you list as positives are all solutions to problems other members never had.

For example, the idea that I'd have to sift through someone's post history for a character just to scout them for potential RP is completely alien to me. Granted, we did Freeform back when I played so jumping into open threads and just RPing was a good way to meet people and if I wanted to know more about a character I'd just reach out to the RPer and develop a repertoire with them.

I was an admin a couple times too here. Finding relevant threads to a character was never that difficult.

If someone would rather use sub-accounts to get a read on a character, more power to them and I would never want to take that from them. I just don't see the merit of dictating people HAVE to use it. Especially when the move to Freeform play is supposed to help generate activity and flexibility for potential future members.
 

Die Shize

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I've been on both sides of roleplay with subaccounts and without subaccounts, on this site and elsewhere, and I found the constant flicking back and forth between one character subaccount and another, and my main user account, to be a nuisance.

...But a nuisance that actually paid off. As long as SWRP adheres to a determined limit of Playable Characters per user, subaccounts can prove useful and proved useful to me when I played here.

I think some good general points have been made for both sides but, from a selfish perspective, I liked how I didn't have to subtly broadcast what character I'm using each time I post IC since the subaccount was self-explanatory. If I wanted to backtrack on a character's posts, it was easy to do through their subaccount. Same when it came to my fellow posters and how they perceive my own posts. The subaccounts provide at-a-glance identification for both parties and I rolled with it.

So, beyond any utility the tool provides for site administration, the subaccounts are pretty nifty to me. Sure, I'm a simpleton at heart, so it was a constant hassle for me to bounce between them (and I may have posted under the wrong account more than once), but I also have 20+ PCs on another site and SWRP made me realize how much of a hassle it is to find their posts without subaccounts. On the other hand, I can't imagine having 20+ subaccounts, but that is a problem that this site does not seem to have.

And all this just as my ten pence on the topic of character subaccounts.
 

Green Ranger

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I've been on both sides of roleplay with subaccounts and without subaccounts, on this site and elsewhere, and I found the constant flicking back and forth between one character subaccount and another, and my main user account, to be a nuisance.

...But a nuisance that actually paid off. As long as SWRP adheres to a determined limit of Playable Characters per user, subaccounts can prove useful and proved useful to me when I played here.

And this is kind of what I've been saying. Like, for you and others, obviously you adjusted to the subaccounts system over time and have learned to utilise it, and overcome that initial hurdle that it presents when getting started, and that's great.

But that hurdle still exists and presents an obstacle for members getting involved in the RP. And while it may have been an inconvenience that was easy to eventually overcome for you and others, for others it might present a larger or more challenging thing to overcome.

I mean, if I think back to when I or Bac or Johnny (for example) were starting out RPing on here at the dawn of time - we were lucky if we knew the bbcode to make things bold or underlined. Most of the people on the site could barely string a sentence together in RP, let alone manage half of the things expected of new members today.

But that's part of why the site was successful back then, because it wasn't hard to get started - you literally just posted a character and started writing. And sure the writing sucked and Bac had a character that was an anagram of Jesus and I had a literal space wizard, but it was fun rather than difficult or intimidating, and so we stuck around and we got better, and over time we learned more about coding or formatting and learned to present our characters and posts better. We were able to do that stuff at our own pace, because there wasn't a requirement to learn these systems before you could start RPing. And like I said in a previous post, getting people to actually write in the RP is whats going to keep them hooked. Then once they're hooked they can learn all of the bells and whistles if they so desire. But at least it's not a boundary to entry anymore.
 

Johnnysaurus Rex

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Broadcasting which character I was playing was as simple as just writing them. Written media has zero problem in telling you who is speaking or who is the POV character in a given situation. It doesn't even need to be subtle, hell, I used to use screenplay style writing for multiple characters in a scene back in the first and second timeline. I've written multiple characters in the same threads before and represented that in a variety of ways as my RP style evolved. Just writing it out, using segments in the posts, and color coding text are all things we used before sub-accounts.

Again, I can not stress enough that I am glad people find use with sub-accounts; but we had people using all of these systems together in the past and it was never a problem. There is no compelling reason it should be a mandated in what style some person engages with this site and writing. Especially when people have different skill levels and interests when it comes to the roleplay.
 
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Yuan

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I'm still curious if we know how this will affect technology and how we acquire it? Haven't seen anyone talk about that yet...

@AutoFox
 

AutoFox

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@Yuan
I doubt this change will effect technology much at all, as it currently stands. We've already taken steps to abandon things like plot requirements and the like to acquire "restricted" tech; you can pretty much have anything you like, but there are certain restrictions on how you can use certain items in an RP. You can find them in the submissions.
 

Yuan

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@Yuan
I doubt this change will effect technology much at all, as it currently stands. We've already taken steps to abandon things like plot requirements and the like to acquire "restricted" tech; you can pretty much have anything you like, but there are certain restrictions on how you can use certain items in an RP. You can find them in the submissions.

Cool! Thanks! I knew I saw you hanging around here somewhere. ; )
 

MasterTyvokka

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I agree completely with @Boli. When I first started RPing, which was not here, I had no idea what I was doing. That place was a lot more freeform than SWRP so I pretty much found an interesting thread that randos were jumping into and added my name to the randos participating. When the SWTOR site was wiped and became paid subscription only I floated around for a while until I stumbled into SWRP. I was still a newb and didn't get my RP legs under me until I was on this site for a while. TBH I am not sure I would have joined SWRP in its current state. It was intimidating, to a point, with factions and a set timeline and all but not so much that I couldn't get used to it or was discouraged from joining.

Now granted this is being changed, but my point is joining a new RP forum, especially if you are new to RPing and/or forums in general, can be intimidating and the more things that need to be done before jumping in can increase the level of intimidation. I think long time members, and in some cases really long time members, can forget how intimidating it can be.

@AutoFox , @Brandon Rhea , and other staff folks, my thoughts on tech are in this same vain. While I actually like the tech boards and have been known to make some tech from time to time, I find the current boards a wee bit onerous. When I came back and lurked for a while reading the new rules it wasn't clear due to conflicting rules in a couple places whether generic tech required a profile. Personally, assuming it is required, I don't think a tech profile is necessary for a commlink. Sure if someone wants to do a write up the more power to them and a place for that is great. But it shouldn't be required or if it isn't, it should be clear.

Then there is the required approval for reskins and cannon tech. I can see this being an unnecessary (at least in the freeform setting) obstacle to a new member and even old members with limited time. Sure I can go find a ship that someone has already written up if I don't have the time, or am new and don't want to do a tech profile yet, but the creativity is still limited. I think this is particularly the case with reskins. I could be reading the current rules wrong but its my understanding that If I want a rainbow x-wing I'd have to do a full tech write up if there is only an orange one currently written up.

Personally, I'd like to see something similar to the systems in the 5th and 6th timelines where there is a place for approval of unique tech or significantly altered cannon tech that requires approval and then a place for generic and cannon tech that folks just want to write up for others to use.

Lastly, back to new members. It has been so long since I joined that I can't remember how it worked but when I returned a couple of months ago I couldn't find the announcement board at the time so I just posted my return in the new members section. I noticed that it took several days for that post to be approved and show up. Now I know that is a spambot prevention measure and it didn't effect me, but I could see, as a new member, being turned off by joining and then not being able to do anything for several days. I understand that this is a staff time thing and maybe with the freeform system coming back staff will have more time to get those approvals done but I think getting new members going as soon as possible should be a priority because as much as us older folks like to thing we are what keeps everything active it can't be kept alive without new members. Heck, most of my RPing over the years has been done with folk who joined after me.
 

AM_Disnerd

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As far as the separate characters sub accounts, it’s okay as long as there’s a limit on how many characters we can create. As stated here if a member had 1000 characters that would 1000 sub accounts. Honestly I don’t know if anyone who has played 1000 characters at least not at one time.

Also as stated sub accounts for characters it both has its pros and cons. I mean it helps somewhat to help separate roleplaying from OOC chatting.

But as I stated before the purpose of roleplaying should be to have fun and not feel like a chore. So I can definitely get on board with a freestyle/form type of roleplaying. Because when too many rules are inflicted people feel pressured and exhausted and eventually end up leaving. Not saying that there shouldn’t be any rules at all because without rules there would be chaos so we need some kind of order.

But I’m glad that the rules are easing up and they are taking a more lenient approach.
 

Die Shize

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And this is kind of what I've been saying. Like, for you and others, obviously you adjusted to the subaccounts system over time and have learned to utilise it, and overcome that initial hurdle that it presents when getting started, and that's great.

But that hurdle still exists and presents an obstacle for members getting involved in the RP. And while it may have been an inconvenience that was easy to eventually overcome for you and others, for others it might present a larger or more challenging thing to overcome.

Without having any metrics, I can't speak to subaccounts posing a problem to new members but my own experience proves to me that it can be a problem. I also agree that for any roleplay site, member engagement is key; you want to do what you can to attract t new players and to keep your players playing, and so too you want to limit any complexity in the system that might hinder that goal.

I guess that's why I emphasize my input being really just from my own perspective with using subaccounts, particularly since I absorbed both pros and cons when using them, while I don't necessarily side either way.

Broadcasting which character I was playing was as simple as just writing them. Written media has zero problem in telling you who is speaking or who is the POV character in a given situation. It doesn't even need to be subtle, hell, I used to use screenplay style writing for multiple characters in a scene back in the first and second timeline. I've written multiple characters in the same threads before and represented that in a variety of ways as my RP style evolved. Just writing it out, using segments in the posts, and color coding text are all things we used before sub-accounts.

Oh, "broadcasting" is more of a personal touch for me lol. I'm profound like that. I can totally relate with you though. Color coding, multiple characters in the same threads, segments—those do work and I've used them before. I don't use subaccounts for my many other characters elsewhere and it's not really a problem.

I just felt that the subaccount added a kind of flair that you otherwise don't get, yet I don't pretend to know what the admin utility is for subaccounts except in regards to rep/rank systems or character slot limits, as Thluna also touched on.

Again, I can not stress enough that I am glad people find use with sub-accounts; but we had people using all of these systems together in the past and it was never a problem. There is no compelling reason it should be a mandated in what style some person engages with this site and writing. Especially when people have different skill levels and interests when it comes to the roleplay.

As SWRP leans more toward the free form scope of things, the functionality of character subaccounts may indeed be lessened if not lost and if ever needed to begin with. I think that's the key: whatever purpose the subaccount served in the past, there's a different playground coming up that may not cater to the same equipment, and my own personal preferences aside the dominating factor should of course be what is best for the player base overall.
 

Tulos

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So what does this mean for pre-existing plots? I'm currently on thread 2 of 3 for my character to be initiated into the BHG (though I'm considering finishing the plot and abandoning the concept of the guild so this is only asking so I know if I decide to keep with that plan)
 

Yuan

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I agree completely with @Boli. When I first started RPing, which was not here, I had no idea what I was doing. That place was a lot more freeform than SWRP so I pretty much found an interesting thread that randos were jumping into and added my name to the randos participating. When the SWTOR site was wiped and became paid subscription only I floated around for a while until I stumbled into SWRP. I was still a newb and didn't get my RP legs under me until I was on this site for a while. TBH I am not sure I would have joined SWRP in its current state. It was intimidating, to a point, with factions and a set timeline and all but not so much that I couldn't get used to it or was discouraged from joining.

Now granted this is being changed, but my point is joining a new RP forum, especially if you are new to RPing and/or forums in general, can be intimidating and the more things that need to be done before jumping in can increase the level of intimidation. I think long time members, and in some cases really long time members, can forget how intimidating it can be.

@AutoFox , @Brandon Rhea , and other staff folks, my thoughts on tech are in this same vain. While I actually like the tech boards and have been known to make some tech from time to time, I find the current boards a wee bit onerous. When I came back and lurked for a while reading the new rules it wasn't clear due to conflicting rules in a couple places whether generic tech required a profile. Personally, assuming it is required, I don't think a tech profile is necessary for a commlink. Sure if someone wants to do a write up the more power to them and a place for that is great. But it shouldn't be required or if it isn't, it should be clear.

Then there is the required approval for reskins and cannon tech. I can see this being an unnecessary (at least in the freeform setting) obstacle to a new member and even old members with limited time. Sure I can go find a ship that someone has already written up if I don't have the time, or am new and don't want to do a tech profile yet, but the creativity is still limited. I think this is particularly the case with reskins. I could be reading the current rules wrong but its my understanding that If I want a rainbow x-wing I'd have to do a full tech write up if there is only an orange one currently written up.

Personally, I'd like to see something similar to the systems in the 5th and 6th timelines where there is a place for approval of unique tech or significantly altered cannon tech that requires approval and then a place for generic and cannon tech that folks just want to write up for others to use.

Lastly, back to new members. It has been so long since I joined that I can't remember how it worked but when I returned a couple of months ago I couldn't find the announcement board at the time so I just posted my return in the new members section. I noticed that it took several days for that post to be approved and show up. Now I know that is a spambot prevention measure and it didn't effect me, but I could see, as a new member, being turned off by joining and then not being able to do anything for several days. I understand that this is a staff time thing and maybe with the freeform system coming back staff will have more time to get those approvals done but I think getting new members going as soon as possible should be a priority because as much as us older folks like to thing we are what keeps everything active it can't be kept alive without new members. Heck, most of my RPing over the years has been done with folk who joined after me.

Well, I think perhaps the tech section may be a little more open-minded than you realize. If you want a rainbow x-wing, you can just copy paste the base x-wing page as is and post in your own picture. Or, you could just say in your RPing that your x-wing is rainbow colored and share a picture in your posts if you have one you want to share. For a rainbow-colored x-wing you really don't need a new tech write-up. Honestly if you are only making cosmetic changes you don't need a write up to my understanding. Now if you are making a completely new ship that just has the same general specs as an already existing ship, then you need a new write-up, but that is to be expected just for verification. If you are changing the performance of a piece of tech or creating new tech with new specs, then a write-up really should be necessary.

As for the tech section being daunting and confusing, I would definitely agree with that. I would propose that @Darasuum 's Tech Heads Digest currently located in the Roleplaying Help section - Here - be moved to the Technology section to act as a table of contents. I use it as such all the time and it is very handy, but I have always wondered why it wasn't located in the tech section? @AutoFox
 

TheSilentWind

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Idk if this is controversial, but in Tefka's site, they don't really have as a regular's structure for technology, than here. Idk if the site still has the hits system where for instance with beskar(I believe we don't use EU anymore, but this is just an example that came to mind) if it gets hit with the lightsaber, a set amount of times, your done.

Perhaps an emulation would be something to consider?
 

Brandon Rhea

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So what does this mean for pre-existing plots? I'm currently on thread 2 of 3 for my character to be initiated into the BHG (though I'm considering finishing the plot and abandoning the concept of the guild so this is only asking so I know if I decide to keep with that plan)
We haven't officially decided this but the conversation so far has leaned towards there being a date where plot approvals are considered officially "stopped" and anything before that continues in the old system until it's finished, and anything after that continues in the new system. It's a bit messy but no more than trying to re-orient existing threads and plots into a new system. Eventually those plots will finish out and we'll be fully on the new system.

Don't take this as gospel yet, though - still to be officially decided but that's the way we've been leaning.
 

MasterTyvokka

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We haven't officially decided this but the conversation so far has leaned towards there being a date where plot approvals are considered officially "stopped" and anything before that continues in the old system until it's finished, and anything after that continues in the new system. It's a bit messy but no more than trying to re-orient existing threads and plots into a new system. Eventually those plots will finish out and we'll be fully on the new system.

Don't take this as gospel yet, though - still to be officially decided but that's the way we've been leaning.


Does this mean if I want to get back into things without having to worry about plot approvals I need to wait until the new (old) system officially launches?
 

Green Ranger

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There's a few of us sort of waiting on the sidelines to see how this all pans out. And I think with the plots system and everything everyone's a bit unsure on how to move forward as well, but transition periods are always a bit messy - especially a ruleset change in the middle of a timeline.

It's only been two weeks since this was announced, and the announcement was a vague sort of 'this is the direction we want to go', not a definite 'this is how things are going to change', so there's a lot to work out yet before the rules are implemented, I imagine.

Would it be beneficial to create a discussion thread to talk about these issues from a community feedback side of things?
 
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