Other Public Rules Proposals

Discussion in 'General OOC Chat' started by Yuan, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. KinkyPrawn

    KinkyPrawn Snappy Boi

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    I do see your point, not gonna lie. That fight between Painus, Dara and Faded has over 2000 views I think. But those are of course high level players who know their stuff.

    Of course there is the option to hijack a system from other sites and give it player choice and say simply that characters can't die without permission. Then players can agree whether their dude dies or not. It'll work for those run-of-the-mill invasion threads that don't have much story to them, where a character dying will just be a waste of creativity. Then the victor can still maim, capture and loot to their heart's content and the loser doesn't need to rack their brain for a new character they'll enjoy.

    It'll also work nicely for very deep threads like the battle for Korriban or the invasion of Mandalore we got going now. Those are story driven and significant, a setting I'd like my character to die if he were to die. Then the character's death has meaning and lends a hand in progressing the story
    Gamov likes this.
  2. James Steel

    James Steel Galactic Fallout

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    So, I know some suggestions have been made, but I really need to throw my two cents in on this one. I strongly believe that PvP is essential to star wars. Granted, I am biased towards PvP because I come from sites where that was all we did, but keeping the war in 'star wars' is very important.

    I don't think that anyone could name a star wars movie where two major characters didn't engage in combat. Star Wars movies typically abide by the formula: 15% Adventure, 10% Romance, and 75% Physical Conflict! I understand that everyone likes to RP in their own way, but PvP is intrinsically tied to star wars.

    Star wars without PvP would be like Dragon Ball without the fights IMO. Also, as a returning member, I do indeed find PvP attractive .
  3. Insoulent

    Insoulent free

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    I want to promote a quick and simple idea I had wanted to introduce for the Hutt cartel a few timelines ago: a colosseum, but as a dedicated PvP sub forum (which I believe we had on the citadel in timeline 4?).

    Or rather - a fighting pit somewhere in space, specifically for PvP centric members to go to and be able to realistically randomly fight anyone and everyone who signed up. You could do quarterly events that has prizes and death matches that could give shine to the good fighters or just be training grounds for members who want to dip their toes in it, and these wouldn’t effect the major galactic story going on.

    Honestly I don’t believe that sentiment though, bud. Star Wars is ultimately focused on shared adventure, political strife/drama, and depending on the era, sure - fighting. In the original trilogy, the resolution to it all would be a fight between a Jedi and a Sith, but fighting isn’t the entire focus of the movies, and rarely do we get training montages. Rather it is the main character going through a war-torn galaxy and getting into problems and getting out of them too, before taking on the big bad guy.

    That’s ultimately the problem, we don’t give much opportunity to create interesting predicaments to get our own characters in - writers just want to win on this site for their faction. Do you want to roleplay simply because you want to write a battle-centric novel where your character and faction is the winner, or is it to explore/expand what the Universe has to offer, and see how your character and your own writing ability grow?

    There’s an array of aliens, cultures, societies, and planets that potentially have so much to offer. It’s part on the member writers themselves being uninspired or unmotivated, and the staff moving slow to correct these problems because they don’t want to look like they fail. We should look for ways to encourage members to be cooperative in their stories with other faction members, and be proactive in wanting to do that too. Which is easier said than done.

    A quick fix for that could even be allow character plots to be public for everyone to see and let members find writing partners from across factions. Sort of like an “LFG” in games like overwatch or destiny. Also, staff shouldn’t be so scared to shake things up and try some stuff once in a while, even if it’s not a big hit, you can always find ways to change and replace stuff.

    Anyone will tell you that in a story, action of course is always a good thing, but it can’t be the center focus of the story’s plot. There has to be purpose that the characters find and internal battles they go through themselves through exploring and meeting new people in the SW Galaxy, that make an interesting story. We are trying to be galactic influencers, but don’t want the inbetween “boring” stuff by just walking and talking in an interesting location, exploring and storycrafting.

    I am strongly against having to kill your opponent just because you’re in a PvP thread, I usually would ask an enemy faction member to sort of play the opposition villain for the thread, but everyone should escape with their lives in tact. In just about every Star Wars movie, those that fought (outside fodder soldiers) usually escaped to fight again somewhere else. That’s sort of the thing I think is lost on the site, and it’s a mentality/habit/culture one has to form because of egotistic focus on who can write like a combat lawyer the best to win a pointless and meticulously written battle.

    All of our characters should already stand out from normal every day citizens, so our stories are going to all obviously reflect that, and we should all get to do great and amazing things every once in a while. But people are just selfishly focused on being notorious in the story and gaining something out of writing and their time. Or look for the faction leadership to give them things to do. Granted this doesn’t apply to all members, but most casual writers on the site definitely look for faction leadership on direction on what to do with their characters.

    And what would a conversation about rewarding ego be without me selfishly pointing at my war system again. It makes those who want PvP centric things to focus on that - and allow those that don’t really care much for PvP or the “glory” it brings - to focus on other things happening around the Galaxy.

    But again, it falls to the site admins and storycrafters to really be involved and proactive in producing interesting stories for non-combat centric members to enjoy or want to be involved in. But that takes dedicated work.

    We should find ways to reward “fannon” article contributions (so long as it fits the SW feel), like we used to!!!!!!!, and allow members to explore all their creative outlets while they write. Stop being so damn “cannon”-only focused. This is a fan driven site, not an official Disney back Star Wars site. We should aim to make stuff fun, not always 100% fair either, it’s part of an adventure - you don’t know what you’ll get in this epicly huge galaxy - the force is in everything so it should be able to do anything.

    If I can be quite frank - in my experience on the site (granted I’ve been gone for two and a half years), the problems boil down to either: the site story is crap, or the members are spoon-fed lazy. The two go hand in hand and can’t have one without the other, but if you want something great we have to work for it and strive to see a vision, but it’s hard to do it alone and with restrictions to try stuff out that might be a little...iffy. Though I’m not advocating to just allow anything to be fannon-approved, but at least be open to the idea of being fannon acceptable. And by fannon, it also includes expanding Legends material type stuff too. Again I might be totally off the message with the fannon/Legends stuff since I’ve been gone, but I know that was an issue back then for a lot of members, they wanted to do more things than just Jedi and Sith. Look at the Mandos :P

    I honestly just think giving members more responsibility and freedom is best - have a story that’s sort of blank slate where the members create their own drama without it being so obvious on what could be the resolution.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  4. Braden Drake

    Braden Drake King of the Castle

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    So my 2p, is more on the story i guess as i am not really a PvP person.

    I think something in the middle of staff and player base could work. Something along the lines of a story committee, made up from lets say 2-3 players from each faction either chosen by the FL or the player base and overseen by a Mod. This groups job would be to create story moments for the Timeline to keep things moving forward, whilst taking into account what people in their faction want to see happen, taking away the need for the Mods to read every single reply. The commite people would be in for 1-2 months before another round of people take over. Thus keeping it fresh but also allowing them to enjoy just writing as well. Ill put an example below;

    Group 1
    Jan-Feb = After the new TL, it appears that people are after a big battle event to try characters out. So they arrange for the battle of Hoth Sector for Feb. This could either be a 5-6 thread set of battles, or perhaps a point system like the NPC factions this TL.

    Group 2
    Mar-Apr = Group 2 are elected towards end of Feb so they can get going straight away in March, the battle of Hoth, goes well but people are after something different. So they orgainise an event similar to the Life Day Kashyyyk plot from this TL for end of March. But because of the interest and activity on Hoth, organise another battle for April.

    Group 3
    May-Jun = All groups want to chill for a bit after the flurry of events so nothing for may. In June the Sith faction and the Mando's really want another battle but the Jedi don't. So we could then organise a more peaceful Jedi Event to take place in June and another battle Sith V Mando for June as well.

    And so on and so on.

    The point of the system is to allow player input on what happens and take some of the strain from the mods but still have site wide events which hopefully everyone can enjoy. The group being overseen by a Mod also means that if Mod Leadership have something in mind for the TL as a whole, they can move the group in the right direction without every event/battle being heavily policed. Hope this all makes sense.
    Nor'baal, James Steel and Insoulent like this.
  5. Insoulent

    Insoulent free

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    This guy is really good.^
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  6. Gamov

    Gamov That Guy

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    These two ideas right here. These seem like they would work in perfect harmony with one another by catering to as many people as possible, without shutting anyone out. So far as I'm concerned, finding a way to employ these ideas side by side should be the road map for how to plan the next timeline.
    KinkyPrawn likes this.
  7. Sreeya

    Sreeya The Devil/Site Co-Owner and Manager

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    Agreed. @Brandon Rhea please review these. I think there are some excellent points here. Let's make this executable.
    vamp likes this.
  8. Brandon Rhea

    Brandon Rhea Site Owner Site Owner

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    Yup, been reading every post. Sorta similar to what was said before, I didn't necessarily want this to be a back and forth thread where I comment on specific ideas yet. I want to take them in and then include ideas in the staff conversations about the rules.
    vamp likes this.
  9. Jake

    Jake Three Pound Brain

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    I haven't been active on the site for years, but I was around for and [I think that I] helped facilitate the shift towards a PvP, death-friendly site culture many timelines ago. On various of my short-lived, sporadic returns to the site I've observed that PvP has had widespread ramifications for the way the roleplay works at SWRP.

    The whole idea of PvP that goes on here at SWRP (and I think Sreeya can probably vouch for this) is loosely based off a system of combat roleplaying that was used on several forums throughout the Internet when play-by-post RP was at its peak well over a decade ago. Some interesting links if anyone feels like reading about this are here and here, posts that are respectively from 2006 and 2011, to give some indication of how old these ideas are.

    However, it doesn't seem like SWRP ever fully adjusted to that style of roleplay. It's very competitive, it's almost always accompanied by a lot of ego and a lot of disputes, because even if you accept the risk, who is going to let a creative effort potentially years in the making be extinguished without arguing over it tooth and nail? I'm exaggerating, and I haven't been following SWRP for a long time now, but my experience with "roleplay combat" in general, across many sites, has given me that impression.

    I think that the site could try to embrace other, radically different systems of roleplay combat, or look for a way to give people options for both. Long-lived forum-based roleplays have existed (one long-since dying but still visible: Althanas; another dead and whose corpse is barely documented on the Wayback Machine, Roleplayer's Realm on animeleague) where the outcomes of battles and wars are determined by the quality of the narrative presented by participants - that is to say, the writers that craft more interesting and well-written stories win, not whoever writes their opponent into a corner.

    There is still a lot of room for tweaks and adjustments to that system. In the two successful implementations I've participated in, the ones I mentioned, the systems were very different despite being grossly similar (after a thread concluded, a judge came in and read it, applied a point-based rubric evaluating technical details like grammar and style, the creative content of the thread, use of setting and story and background, etc). On Althanas, you could lose the fight but win the thread quite easily (making it simple for players with low level characters to defeat veterans). On Roleplayer's Realm, threads progressed up until a boiling point, whereupon a judge gave their evaluation and the winner wrote the thread's conclusion.

    I don't think either of these systems could be copy-pasted onto SWRP and work, but maybe looking for ways to make PvP less about who can think of fancier ways to use the Force or their lightsaber and more about the narrative is a good way to start.