A Million Eyes OOC

Discussion in 'Story OOC' started by Tundra, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Yuan

    Yuan Dominuce of Megadeuce

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    "...Instinctually, he swung Vernon around between himself and the hunter and as he flipped his blaster pistol across Vernon's shoulders, pointing directly at her groin, he also switched it to lethal with a distinctive 'click' as stun shots against an armored target were not optimal.

    "Imperial Peace Officer. Move along. I don't share." Metro said almost with a feral growl, in case he was wrong about her being a hunter. If she didn't keep moving on her trajectory, if she instead slowed down, turned towards him, stopped, or made any threatening movement; Metro's finger gripping the trigger would instantly fire three shots in between her hips..."

    Copied directly from your post. You wrote metro pulling Vernon in front of him, aiming at Yura and then not firing but rather calling out to her to identify himself. Then you stated that you WOULD shoot IF Yura took certain actions, but would not shoot if she did not take those actions. Metro has no way of knowing what actions Yura is going to take before she takes them, so he cannot logically take those actions until she takes the actions his choice depends on. Also, shared time means I can take actions within the same timeframe as your actions as well, and there was plenty of time for Yura to hop to the right while Metro was shouting out "Imperial Peace Officer. Move along. I don't share." After which point, all of her actions were taken behind cover. And as I said, since you did not actually throw the attack, but merely stated that it WOULD BE TAKEN depending on future actions that had not occurred yet, and then failed to follow up and actually take said actions, I do not recognize those actions as having occurred.
     
  2. LA

    LA New Member

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    Not arguing again with you, @Yuan ; report, post, or move on. You had your chance to write Yura following Metro's instructions, you didn't take it, and didn't address the shots that would follow. I really don't care at this point.

    I'm making another image that will demonstrate what my understanding of the timeline and the positions are, @Faded Truth and @Taz both of you will have to agree to it for me to rescind my exit, and the thread will have to be changed to ASK by @Tundra , with no more entrants in the thread except those currently in it.

    Edit: I'd also like to reiterate, the NPCs are not being used to defend Metro, I concede they are panicking, they are being used to establish the timeline.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  3. Taz

    Taz Active Member

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    Sense the thread was reported I'm of the opinion of waiting for judgement and going from there. Rather then continue to kick a dead horse lets just see what the staff say.
     
  4. Yuan

    Yuan Dominuce of Megadeuce

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    I see no need to report at this time. I'm simply stating that I will not be recognizing the auto hit and why. Besides the thread has already been reported and is awaiting judgement. The mod may rule on our issue as well. Who knows.

    Only what we write happens. You can't set up a future intent in one post and expect that action to happen automatically before your next post. I intentionally did not respond to your 3 shot attack because you did not state that it actually happened, merely that it would happen in the future. Thus I will be happy to post reacting to your 5 shot attack, but will still treat your 3 shot attack as not having occurred. But, as Taz said, I will wait until after the mods are done with their judgement.
     
  5. LA

    LA New Member

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    [​IMG]

    This is the situation at the point Metro drops the schmoke grenade. Red circle is metro. Blue is Markus. Yellow is Vian. Green thing is the crowd panic currently spreading at that point. Schmoke grenade location is labelled. Because Markus could not have seen Metro, but can see the schmoke, his sighting of Vernon and Metro was interrupted and he doesn't have to move as he did before, he may edit his post to describe how he would interact with the schmoke instead. Either way, he would closing on a ball of schmoke, so the last post doesn't make sense as it stands.

    @Tundra @Faded Truth @Taz

    You guys want to lock the thread and get the PvP you wanted, or not?
     
  6. Arclight

    Arclight Lore Administrator

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    Taz likes this.
  7. Arclight

    Arclight Lore Administrator

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    OFFICIAL RULING: Thread exits can be interrupted, any "//exit thread" only counts as an attempt and its success is dependent on nobody interacting with your character or attacking them in the next round.

    I rejected the second report as it had to do with this one. Remember, 3 reports ends a thread with a ruled ending so do not be so hasty to smash that report button, talk with your fellow players to clarify any confusion or suggest compromises. Reports should only be used when you're certain an agreement will not be reached though conversation.

    @Lets Awesome @Taz @Yuan @Faded Truth
     
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  8. Taz

    Taz Active Member

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  9. Taz

    Taz Active Member

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    Tried not to dog pile @Lets Awesome , @Yuan the force blast should be considered a powerful force push that was charged up sense my first post.
     
  10. LA

    LA New Member

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    The crowd is protecting Vian and Markus as much as they are Metropolis. I'm following the actual timeline though, so this protection hasn't come up. It's there though.

    Neither @Taz or @Faded Truth have responded to my latest posts in this thread. Neither rejecting, accepting, nor acknowledging the arguments, or requests, contained in them; but they have continued posting. The issues stand, and until you guys respond I can't post anymore, as there's nothing to say.
     
  11. Faded Truth

    Faded Truth PvP

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    @Lets Awesome

    There was an admin official ruling, your exit attempt has been interrupted. There is nothing further to argue.
     
  12. Taz

    Taz Active Member

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    @Lets Awesome,there is no crowd, NPCs cannot effect a PvP fight. This has already been discussed. You reported your own post for judgement and Arc gave you the answer that none of us have the ability to refuse or debate. The interruption of Metro's exit is valid.

    You can post and should do so within the next 48hours of our posts or per the rules and Arclights ruling, will be auto hit.
     
  13. LA

    LA New Member

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    The ruling is a general reiteration of a rule. My take was there's no ruling because it was decided that there was nothing to be ruled on, but it is much vaguer than past rulings so I assume there is a subtext there that we have to compromise? Oh, and my issues have not at all been resolved, which is why I assume there was a mention that players should compromise, so let's not go around threatening auto-hits.

    NPC panic establishes timeline, they are not interfering. When both of you enter the streets are clear. That's not in dispute and I agree they can't interfere. The problem is you both entered later than you realized, and staggered, as well.

    I've already offered to stay in the thread, if a more logical timeline is followed and both Markus and Vian see smoke first. There is no reason to attack me to assert that the thread exit has been interrupted. I've already come up with IC reasons for not exiting, I will use them next post if both of you agree to following the timeline. I am not disputing that I can't unilaterally exit, and have never disputed that.

    @Faded Truth @Taz
     
  14. Yuan

    Yuan Dominuce of Megadeuce

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    *Sidenote: I think I'm next up to post. I'll get that up tonight when I get off work.
     
  15. Taz

    Taz Active Member

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    @Lets Awesome , I think you are trying to make this a kind of turn based RPG game. Where, if I'm understanding what your trying to say, you think it should take myself and @Faded Truth extra time or rounds to enter the fight or something. The three of you have been writing for X rounds so it should take us at least that many to get to the fight or something. Or that somehow the environment somehow dictate that we should be slowed to get to the fight. That is simply not the case.

    The only thing a later entering player or any player has to give you is one post. I'm not going to quote the rules but is does say in the PvP rules that no one can attack on their first post. That first post does however need to have location of character in relation to events and other characters and have gear that is not on the character profile if one is wishing to somehow deviate from it.

    As I tried to point out before, Vian's location and thus any edits I would have need to make were not asked of you or @Yuan prior to the two of you posting after my post. So if you wanted Vian not to be able to have your back at all you should have made that request prior to your attempted exit post. Do I admit I messed up on inside or outside? YES. Did the both of you still allow the rest of the post to go on unedited and let Vian stay at Metro's back? YES. So Vian has your back without delay or stagger or anything else. The post is cannon, because the both of you posted and continued the timeline of events.

    I've had characters killed becasue of less, I've had a character killed before a rule change that would of saved him a week prior. It sucks but it happens in PvP. To me is seems that "The Logical Timeline" you want is for myself and faded not to have metro's back and give you time to evade or otherwise avoid any attacks because you are now in a bad spot and are able to be attacked in three directions. But that timeline "logic" should of been made in this OOC before posting in the story thread, you were looking for a way out and thought you could exit the thread with the prize before we could attack or block you. You keep pushing this timeline says this, crowd bocks that thing to continue to try can get out of getting hit.

    However, by posting in the thread you sealed your own fate. I have literally done the same thing on this site before, and the rule then is the rule now. You posted a reply, @Yuan posted a reply, so any posts after that are now valid and cannon to the story. The ruling was then made that YES we can indeed interrupted the attempted exit. So, Metro's shots and smoke were attempted AFTER Vian and faded's character have Metro's back. That is the timeline of events, because that is how they were posted.

    You could of posted seeing or force sensing Vian while he was flanking and interrupted his move. Could of spray and prayed all directions with the five shots, thus trying to get Vian and Yuan character and perhaps even Faded's character. Could of dropped the grenade before firing any shots and used the force in a couple of other ways sense Metro is forces sensitive. I'm sure there are other ideas I'm not thinking of. But you posted the way you posted, as did the rest of us even @Tundra who more or less just let himself get taken.

    You want to save your character I get that, I really do because I really hate making new characters because I'm slow at it. I'm not tryng kill Metro, Vian just wants Vernon, If Faded wants to change his attack to less lethal and allow your character to live but be stunned I'm good with that and see no reason to kill any characters. If we want to CPvP from here on so someone gets Vernon and no one dies I'm ok with that as well. But all posts leading up to Metro's attempted exit are valid, and we should find a solution to be found after the fact.

    ALSO, yes if we want to switch the thread to ASK I'm good with that as well.
     
    LA likes this.
  16. LA

    LA New Member

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    I appreciate you posting all this out. I really do. I'm going to give you my full response once I resolve a conversation with Arclight, as I'm having some trouble understanding the ruling right now and it would be more appropriate then. I conferred with Tundra already and we agreed to change the thread to ASK, but I absolutely appreciate you being cool with it, this is progress on an issue, and we needed that in the thread. Thanks.
     
  17. Tundra

    Tundra New Member

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    God damn lol. Yeah, looking back... really wondering wtf I was even doing.
     
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  18. LA

    LA New Member

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    There are many things we agree on too. We agree NPCs can't be used as a defense. We agree the streets are clear upon Markus and Vian entering. We agree Metropolis has smoke grenades and can use them. That posting without an interrupt implies consent. @Taz @Tundra and myself agree: Lock the thread. I also haven't seen any arguments on the issue of entry *positions*, so I assume no arguments imply consent. It's time that matters.

    Paragraphs:

    • "The only thing a later entering player or any player has to give you is one post. I'm not going to quote the rules but is does say in the PvP rules that no one can attack on their first post. That first post does however need to have location of character in relation to events and other characters and have gear that is not on the character profile if one is wishing to somehow deviate from it."

      I agree. This does not mean the inverse, that because you cannot attack the first post, you must be allowed to the next, and not because of the number of posts, but what shared time period those posts are describing, as well as not violating meta-gaming. They must be logical attacks, both IC and physically.


    • "As I tried to point out before, Vian's location and thus any edits I would have need to make were not asked of you or @Yuan prior to the two of you posting after my post. So if you wanted Vian not to be able to have your back at all you should have made that request prior to your attempted exit post. Do I admit I messed up on inside or outside? YES. Did the both of you still allow the rest of the post to go on unedited and let Vian stay at Metro's back? YES. So Vian has your back without delay or stagger or anything else. The post is cannon, because the both of you posted and continued the timeline of events."

      I don't want you to edit the posts anymore than I wanted Tundra to when I scored the autohit. I had no reason to because I interrupted it so severely. If you had edited it might have been to my detriment so I don't see why I would. I put in the OOC of that post that I interrupted your sighting of Vernon, and therefore your sighting of Vernon could not have taken place. You disagreed with it in the OOC. Then I explained how I interrupted it in the OOC, in great detail. You continued to disagree but ignored all of my arguments, but brought up some new ones of your own. I responded to them, and I asked you to accept that timeline. Then I made a map of why this happened. Then you posted ignoring the interrupt with out addressing virtually all my arguments.


    • "I've had characters killed becasue of less, I've had a character killed before a rule change that would of saved him a week prior. It sucks but it happens in PvP. To me is seems that "The Logical Timeline" you want is for myself and faded not to have metro's back and give you time to evade or otherwise avoid any attacks because you are now in a bad spot and are able to be attacked in three directions. But that timeline "logic" should of been made in this OOC before posting in the story thread, you were looking for a way out and thought you could exit the thread with the prize before we could attack or block you. You keep pushing this timeline says this, crowd bocks that thing to continue to try can get out of getting hit."

      Well, I made several different arguments why this was not the case, and I assume there was some confusion with my original argument. I only mentoned the NPCs blocking to show that it was absurd to assume the timeline you devised as written and why it was then possible to interrupt it. For the sake of the argument. I never accepted that they were defending Metro. So:
      1. The NPCs establish the timeline.
      2. You had them move the way they did.
      3. It is primarily Metro's actions that defend him from Vian, because when Vian enters the street is clear, but also of Metro.
      Like all the arguments I've brought up in this post, these points have not been properly addressed.

      I'll also note you are not entitled to an attack if you have no reason to attack, for instance your prey being invisible. Not sure what your problem with a stealthy exit is. You seem to be suggesting you are entitled to PvP the second post after you enter a thread. This is simply not the case, not if a character has a viable escape.


    • "However, by posting in the thread you sealed your own fate. I have literally done the same thing on this site before, and the rule then is the rule now. You posted a reply, @Yuan posted a reply, so any posts after that are now valid and cannon to the story. The ruling was then made that YES we can indeed interrupted the attempted exit. So, Metro's shots and smoke were attempted AFTER Vian and faded's character have Metro's back. That is the timeline of events, because that is how they were posted."

      Preventing the sighting of Vernon was a proper interrupt of mine. I've explained in several ways why this must be. Yet I noticed that only times I've seen interrupt mentioned by you is to interrupt the exit you didn't want. So you seem to acknowledge that interrupting can change timelines when you'd like them to, but not in this case where I've asserted they can, before your attempt.


    • "You could of posted seeing or force sensing Vian while he was flanking and interrupted his move. Could of spray and prayed all directions with the five shots, thus trying to get Vian and Yuan character and perhaps even Faded's character. Could of dropped the grenade before firing any shots and used the force in a couple of other ways sense Metro is forces sensitive. I'm sure there are other ideas I'm not thinking of. But you posted the way you posted, as did the rest of us even @Tundra who more or less just let himself get taken."

      Ah, this seems to be the confusion then. Actions can interrupt as much as attacks. You don't need to attack to interrupt.


    • "You want to save your character I get that, I really do because I really hate making new characters because I'm slow at it. I'm not tryng kill Metro, Vian just wants Vernon, If Faded wants to change his attack to less lethal and allow your character to live but be stunned I'm good with that and see no reason to kill any characters. If we want to CPvP from here on so someone gets Vernon and no one dies I'm ok with that as well. But all posts leading up to Metro's attempted exit are valid, and we should find a solution to be found after the fact."

      Wait, does your character want Vernon alive? I thought he wanted to kill him right? I'm assuming he doesn't care about him seeing justice alive, because then it would be arbitrary who captures him, and therefore there is no reason to attack him in the first place as he noticed in your entry post he has just been apprehended. I'm not sure this matters. I don't really intend on doing cPvP though. It's not why I entered the thread.



    I'd like for @Taz and @Faded Truth , for you both to amend your posts to reflect that they saw smoke first and to follow the timeline as I have laid out, in your latest posts. Because you have both posted, my interrupt is now locked in. I was informed of this by Arclight just now.

    Edit: Here is the map, so there is no confusion.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  19. Faded Truth

    Faded Truth PvP

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    My actions were done to interrupt your smoke as my post is written. I am tagging @Arclight in this for clarification as this is getting unnecessarily confusing. Metropolis was committed to shooting at Yuan, Markus shot during this action and thus effectively prevented the Smoke. Nothing that I can identify in the Timeline tells me otherwise that this is not possible.
     
  20. Taz

    Taz Active Member

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    I'll read this book a little later. However agree to hold any further posts until myself and faded have a chance to read it.

    Edit, ninja Faded. Don't want another report but agree need some @Arclight help.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019